Was Takter Really Blocking The Favorite In This Race? - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

Sea Biscuit · 07-16-2014, 06:48 AM

Me thinks he was not blocking anybody. His horse got no hole and was parked the mile first over. Happens all the time. Tough break for the chalkies.

After getting a flurry of calls from gamblers complaining that Takter was blocking the favorite so that one of his other horses in the race could win, Gural is thinking of a rule change.

It all happened in the 5th race on July 12 at the meadowlands.

http://www.harnesslink.com/USA/Chair...ller-Memorial-

View the replay. Click on July 12 Race 5

http://www.thebigm.com/video.aspx?id=252

willphorse · 07-16-2014, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea Biscuit

Me thinks he was not blocking anybody. His horse got no hole and was parked the mile first over. Happens all the time. Tough break for the chalkies.

After getting a flurry of calls from gamblers complaining that Takter was blocking the favorite so that one of his other horses in the race could win, Gural is thinking of a rule change.

It all happened in the 5th race on July 12 at the meadowlands.

http://www.harnesslink.com/USA/Chair...ller-Memorial-

View the replay. Click on July 12 Race 5

http://www.thebigm.com/video.aspx?id=252

Of course Gural wants to change the rules!!! And if you don't follow, there will be consequences. I've never seen anybody so arrogant!

He didn't block anybody. His 99-1 was parked and simply couldn't brush. As for the favorite, he pulled at the top of the stretch and couldn't even get by for place! If you ask me, he wasn't the best horse in the race. End of story!

Stillriledup · 07-16-2014, 01:08 PM

Here's what harness bettors are interested in. If you're 99-1 STAY OUT OF THE WAY. You have to find a way to NOT be in the road with a horse like that. He had post 3 and he "left a little" and got rimmed, but you have to take the horse back and get over to the rail, if he was "off the gate" he would have been able to get inside, but if you leave a little bit, you could get stuck.

One of harness racing's main problems is perception, it doesn't even matter if this guy was legitimately not blocking, bettor don't care about that because he ended up getting in the way and that doesn't happen in thoroughbred racing. You don't hear bettors complaining that their pick lost because another horse was "in the way" but in harness racing, the nature of the game, you have to really depend on other drivers to not "clog" the race....and if you clog the race, whether or not it was intentional, it hurts the handicapping process and hurts perception.

I don't know what rules Gural is considering changing, but one rule i'd like to see implemented is this half in half out rule.....if you pull to the outside, you must advance, you can't sit there, you have to keep the flow going, there are way too many races where guys will pull out and wait for cover to develop, bettors aren't interested in that....if you pull, you go. If you don't want to go, you sit in, very simple concept to understand.

mrroyboy · 07-16-2014, 01:16 PM

Here is the thing. If it had been a coupled entry it would be ok if he blocked the favorite. Just good racing tactics. I guess because they were separate betting that's what caused the problem.

Stillriledup · 07-16-2014, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrroyboy

Here is the thing. If it had been a coupled entry it would be ok if he blocked the favorite. Just good racing tactics. I guess because they were separate betting that's what caused the problem.

Good point.

I think that its up to the judges to determine whether or not a driver gave "Full effort", uncoupled entry or not. If you're 99-1 the best shot you have is to save ground on both turns and pray, if you don't drive consistently with that strategy on a 99-1 shot, it can be viewed as you didnt really give your best effort to win.

willphorse · 07-16-2014, 02:48 PM

You have to think, nice purse. He doesn't care what bettors think. He's out to get a piece of the purse! Who cares if he's 99-1! We've all seen bombs win. Fact of the matter is people cry when their 1-1 got blocked and lost. Thing is he didn't even have enough to get by pocket horse!!! It was a clean race.

Stillriledup · 07-16-2014, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willphorse

You have to think, nice purse. He doesn't care what bettors think. He's out to get a piece of the purse! Who cares if he's 99-1! We've all seen bombs win. Fact of the matter is people cry when their 1-1 got blocked and lost. Thing is he didn't even have enough to get by pocket horse!!! It was a clean race.

It doesnt matter whether he cares or not, it matters what the track thinks and if they care about their bettors and they care about honest and competitive races. The horse is 99-1 for a reason, most horses that odds finish up the track, maybe its in the track's best interest to not put horses in races that are going to be 99-1.

cmp92 · 07-16-2014, 04:14 PM

I'm pretty sure Scott Zeron is guilty of the same thing in the Ben Franklin at Pocono. He was a big price and he somehow got parked from post 2. He let Sweet Lou go by and now Burke has Sweet Lou, Bettor's Edge, and Foiled Again sitting 1-2-3. His fourth horse (Zeron) essentially kept Bolt the Duer, Captaintreacherous, and Domethatagain all out of the race and Burke sweeps the trifecta.

cmp92 · 07-16-2014, 04:23 PM

I don't think Gural's rule will do much to deter that sort of strategy anyway. Just look at the Ben Franklin example. Trainers have a "good soldier" who will do that sort of stuff out of loyalty.

willphorse · 07-16-2014, 05:02 PM

I guess I will just disagree. Bettors are looking for their piece, but so are the owners, drivers and trainers. Everybody is entitled to their shot. As an owner, I would want my trainers and drivers fighting, 99-1 or not! I don't care about the bettors in situations where my horse is racing! It's all peri-mutual, so track is not making enough to care. It annoys me when people complain about unfair racing tactics. When I bet, I would much rather see my money on a 99-1 who leaves and FIGHTS, grinding 1st over, than a 99-1 who gets parked and pulls back to last to get to the rail and ultimate lending ALL chances of being close. In big races especially, all drivers will attempt to at least give themselves a shot at a piece of the purse rather than pull back, and giving up.

I am not budging from my stance, as in my opinion they are trying their all and should be respected as such!

The Bit · 07-17-2014, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willphorse

Of course Gural wants to change the rules!!! And if you don't follow, there will be consequences. I've never seen anybody so arrogant!

He didn't block anybody. His 99-1 was parked and simply couldn't brush. As for the favorite, he pulled at the top of the stretch and couldn't even get by for place! If you ask me, he wasn't the best horse in the race. End of story!

Couldn't brush?!?!? They went 30.1 for the 2nd quarter but yet he kept up decently well through a sub 28 3rd quarter lolol

Stillriledup · 07-17-2014, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willphorse

I guess I will just disagree. Bettors are looking for their piece, but so are the owners, drivers and trainers. Everybody is entitled to their shot. As an owner, I would want my trainers and drivers fighting, 99-1 or not! I don't care about the bettors in situations where my horse is racing! It's all peri-mutual, so track is not making enough to care. It annoys me when people complain about unfair racing tactics. When I bet, I would much rather see my money on a 99-1 who leaves and FIGHTS, grinding 1st over, than a 99-1 who gets parked and pulls back to last to get to the rail and ultimate lending ALL chances of being close. In big races especially, all drivers will attempt to at least give themselves a shot at a piece of the purse rather than pull back, and giving up.

I am not budging from my stance, as in my opinion they are trying their all and should be respected as such!

One of harness bettors main pet peeves is having a driver on a no hoper screwing up the race. You want that 99-1 grinding until you get stuck behind him and most of the time, you will. Most of the time that 99-1 will just be in the way....bettors want those horses to stay out of the way, very few horses over 50-1 are going to get into the flow and keep up and not screw up the horse behind them.

Getting a "shot" at a piece of a purse on a no hoper is sitting in and hoping to clunk up for a check, harness drivers for the most part, drive to the board, your opinion is not shared by many serious bettors or anyone who's ever bet one harness race for that matter.

cmp92 · 07-17-2014, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

One of harness bettors main pet peeves is having a driver on a no hoper screwing up the race. You want that 99-1 grinding until you get stuck behind him and most of the time, you will. Most of the time that 99-1 will just be in the way....bettors want those horses to stay out of the way, very few horses over 50-1 are going to get into the flow and keep up and not screw up the horse behind them.

Getting a "shot" at a piece of a purse on a no hoper is sitting in and hoping to clunk up for a check, harness drivers for the most part, drive to the board, your opinion is not shared by many serious bettors or anyone who's ever bet one harness race for that matter.

Right. If you don't have the horse, stay in. If you feel live, then you can pull. Takter and Scream and Shout fall into the former category.

Prairie Bettor · 07-17-2014, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bit

Couldn't brush?!?!? They went 30.1 for the 2nd quarter but yet he kept up decently well through a sub 28 3rd quarter lolol

Couldn't agree more. He clearly was trying to cheat the system. Do we really want this to be OK?

The Bit · 07-18-2014, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prairie Bettor

Couldn't agree more. He clearly was trying to cheat the system. Do we really want this to be OK?

No it shouldn't be ok but unfortunately it seems some people can't even recognize the issues with it!

But don't worry, he self-incriminates himself in recent articles.

“Why should I put pace into the race? I had no reason to do that." - J Takter

Well if it wasn't a horse you trained on the front end you might have Jimmy.