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07-28-2013, 09:23 AM
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#31
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by chadk66
when Ness trained in MN the word around the barn area was he was def. helping them out considerably. And your stats above certainly point in that direction. And somebody posted his rap sheet a few months back and I believe it was quite long. In regards to Navarro, his stats make sense. When you first start out you don't have the stock. It takes a few years to build up the barn. His stats indicate exactly that.
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You need to take a look at the PPs of some of his winners.
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07-28-2013, 10:36 AM
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,414
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cj
You need to take a look at the PPs of some of his winners.
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I'd love to look at that but I don't have access to that.
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07-29-2013, 01:43 AM
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#33
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,139
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Does anyone understand the way this guy operates when he claims horses? For example, the winner of the 10th @Mth on 7/26 was J.B's UNC $11.20. In the form it looks like Navarro claimed it. But if you look at the chart on the day the horse was claimed on May 25th @CD it says "J.B's UNC was claimed by Gramm Marshal K.trainer, Newton Troy. Troy is a trainer based @Mnr. Horse never races until it shows up in Navarro's barn and wins.This is just one example of similar scenarios I've seen with him.
If these are private sales to Navarro, I would expect to see the statement, "Previously trained by..." But the form never makes mention of these middle men. Not only do the trainers change but the owners change as well. I see this a lot with Navarro. The only explanation I can come up with is this guy has a lot of people working for him which would include other trainers,and/or owners. Makes me wonder how big an outfit this guy has while he flies under the radar.
Last edited by Light; 07-29-2013 at 01:55 AM.
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07-29-2013, 09:25 AM
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#34
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Racing Form Detective
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lincoln, Ne but my heart is at Santa Anita
Posts: 16,316
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Light
Does anyone understand the way this guy operates when he claims horses? For example, the winner of the 10th @Mth on 7/26 was J.B's UNC $11.20. In the form it looks like Navarro claimed it. But if you look at the chart on the day the horse was claimed on May 25th @CD it says "J.B's UNC was claimed by Gramm Marshal K.trainer, Newton Troy. Troy is a trainer based @Mnr. Horse never races until it shows up in Navarro's barn and wins.This is just one example of similar scenarios I've seen with him.
If these are private sales to Navarro, I would expect to see the statement, "Previously trained by..." But the form never makes mention of these middle men. Not only do the trainers change but the owners change as well. I see this a lot with Navarro. The only explanation I can come up with is this guy has a lot of people working for him which would include other trainers,and/or owners. Makes me wonder how big an outfit this guy has while he flies under the radar.
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I wonder how often this happens. I ran across it once when I was researching a NY-GP based trainer for something else. I passed over it and let it go. With your post, I wondering if it would not be worth looking at in more depth. It is certain off the public radar.
__________________
Some day in the not too distant future, horse players will betting on computer generated races over the net. Race tracks will become casinos and shopping centers. And some crooner will be belting out "there used to be a race track here".
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07-29-2013, 10:25 AM
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#35
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Slope Handicapping ™
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mount Holly, New Jersey
Posts: 1,120
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Let's see if someone can connect the dots......
Marshall K. Graham runs High Point Thoroughbred Partners, so there is really no change in ownership of J B's UNC. He claimed the horse as an individual and then moved him into the partnership. Based on the Equibase owner database they have only run in 2013 with a record of 33-15-13 from 84 starters. 39% winners and 73% ITM. These guys are good.
Marshall K. Graham ran a string of horses at Parx which were trained by Juan Carlos Guerrero. Per Equibase, they were also partners on 22 starters in 2011 and 2012:
http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Res...=O&eID=1859720
A record of 7-3-6 from those 22 starters; 32% win and 73% ITM.
In addition to Navarro, HPTP uses Scott Lake and Michael Pino; which each have entrants at Parx today in the 2nd and 8th.
I'm wondering if there is any connection between JC Guerrero and Navarro? 
__________________
Slope Handicapping ™ - winning since 2005
Our learning institutions only want diversity in appearances, not in thoughts.
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07-29-2013, 10:41 AM
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#36
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 489
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rise Over Run
Let's see if someone can connect the dots......
Marshall K. Graham runs High Point Thoroughbred Partners, so there is really no change in ownership of J B's UNC. He claimed the horse as an individual and then moved him into the partnership. Based on the Equibase owner database they have only run in 2013 with a record of 33-15-13 from 84 starters. 39% winners and 73% ITM. These guys are good.
Marshall K. Graham ran a string of horses at Parx which were trained by Juan Carlos Guerrero. Per Equibase, they were also partners on 22 starters in 2011 and 2012:
http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Res...=O&eID=1859720
A record of 7-3-6 from those 22 starters; 32% win and 73% ITM.
In addition to Navarro, HPTP uses Scott Lake and Michael Pino; which each have entrants at Parx today in the 2nd and 8th.
I'm wondering if there is any connection between JC Guerrero and Navarro? |
Yeah Marshall Graham
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07-29-2013, 10:49 AM
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#37
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Slope Handicapping ™
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mount Holly, New Jersey
Posts: 1,120
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rise Over Run
Let's see if someone can connect the dots......
Marshall K. Graham runs High Point Thoroughbred Partners, so there is really no change in ownership of J B's UNC. He claimed the horse as an individual and then moved him into the partnership. Based on the Equibase owner database they have only run in 2013 with a record of 33-15-13 from 84 starters. 39% winners and 73% ITM. These guys are good.
Marshall K. Graham ran a string of horses at Parx which were trained by Juan Carlos Guerrero. Per Equibase, they were also partners on 22 starters in 2011 and 2012:
http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Res...=O&eID=1859720
A record of 7-3-6 from those 22 starters; 32% win and 73% ITM.
In addition to Navarro, HPTP uses Scott Lake and Michael Pino; which each have entrants at Parx today in the 2nd and 8th.
I'm wondering if there is any connection between JC Guerrero and Navarro? |
Sorry, last name is actually spelled Gramm.
__________________
Slope Handicapping ™ - winning since 2005
Our learning institutions only want diversity in appearances, not in thoughts.
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07-29-2013, 11:27 PM
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#38
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,822
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Mr. Rise over Run, you sir have just connected the dots. Nice work. Fellow South Jersey guy, no surprise you're a sharp one.
By the way, it doesn't matter exactly what the horses are or are not getting. If you're betting on races where guys like Navarro are winning 50% off the claim, you need to have your eyes open.
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07-30-2013, 03:18 PM
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#39
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 20
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He's got some pretty impressive numbers....I'll give u that:
61% ITM (226-372) in Tampa at the last 5 meetings.....
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08-06-2013, 03:45 PM
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#40
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 630
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All of the sudden, almost as if he read this thread, he is 1 for his last 10. With only 4 of 10 on the board.
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08-06-2013, 05:34 PM
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#41
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Out-of-town Jasper
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,364
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Bit
All of the sudden, almost as if he read this thread, he is 1 for his last 10. With only 4 of 10 on the board.
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Trainers have every right to be as streaky as bettors. Indeed, I have a hypothesis which I haven't even tried to test yet, that the best way to identify cheating trainers is they would not have the usual and expected cold streaks.
__________________
“If you want to outwit the devil, it is extremely important that you don't give him advanced notice."
~Alan Watts
Last edited by therussmeister; 08-06-2013 at 05:35 PM.
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09-15-2013, 12:04 AM
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#42
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 25,607
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Take a look at the PPs for Evolution Rocks at Monmouth in Tomorrow's 9th.
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09-22-2013, 08:03 PM
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#44
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 25,607
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stillriledup
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Sorry for posting vids with ads at the beginning, these links didnt have ads when i originally clicked on them......they're getting sneakier and sneakier.
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09-22-2013, 08:07 PM
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#45
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,646
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stillriledup
Sorry for posting vids with ads at the beginning, these links didnt have ads when i originally clicked on them......they're getting sneakier and sneakier.
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Can't be helped when it comes to YouTube...no big deal...
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