Will Justify get DQ'd?

[papillon]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

This is going no where, what are they going to refund all the moneys that people paid to breed and for the mares already in foal to a triple crown winner?

Sperm is pretty cheap. It's the reputation that costs so much. People breed to sell. His value is certainly in flux right now, because his reputation has been significantly damaged.

No positive doping test is insignificant for the reputations of champion horses. Every one of his colts and fillies will be introduced in the post parade by Bob Costas as the offspring of the TC winner, who was doped. At least in one race. The must win race to even get a chance to run in the TC.

If it turns out Coolmore knew or should have known, then they may very well have to buy the weanlings or provide other compensation. Offering a free session with another of it's stallions of equal value, seems reasonable.

Those who've reserved a place on his book for next year, might withdraw, or at least give it serious thought.

It's not like there isn't another TC winner at Coolmore Stud.

[BarchCapper]

Originally Posted by papillon

Sperm is pretty cheap. It's the reputation that costs so much. People breed to sell. His value is certainly in flux right now, because his reputation has been significantly damaged.

In your eyes, yes. In the general public’s eyes, probably. To the commercial breeders, not necessarily. That remains to be seen.

Those who breed sell to those who breed or race (or pinhook). If that small group decides that what they saw on track was good enough to them, and the foals turn out looking great, they’ll sell just fine.

They’re not selling to you and me.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by jimmyb

There would be hell to pay If Hollendorfer had been Justify's trainer.

Or Belichick!

[formula_2002]

It all boils down to the rules

Was California racing compliant in changing the rules
From disqualifying to fining?

[bob60566]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

We aren't in court here. You claimed that Justify was clean in the TC. We don't know that. We only know he passed whatever tests were administered.

Be aware that a test is not considered the only competent evidence of doping, even in court. Any number of track athletes have been suspended or disqualified despite passing their drug tests, based on medical records, eyewitness testimony, and other competent forms of evidence.

Indeed, it is VERY important that nobody get sucked into "anyone who passes a test is clean". That has nothing to do with due process and is not a legal standard. It's basically an invitation for people to just go ahead and circumvent drug tests in whatever way possible.

What should happen- but of course won't- is a full inquiry of Justify's entire career. Let's get people on the record. Obviously someone leaked this inquiry to Joe Drape. Maybe there's some veterinary assistant out there who is willing to say what really went on.

But no way am I going to declare this horse clean in all his other races. At BEST, he hasn't been conclusively proven dirty yet.

Thinking along those lines and how quiet his stable has been in 2019

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Mick Ruis to sue. He trained Bolt D'Oro who was runner-up in the Santa Anita Derby in the race that Justify won with the tainted blood sample.

Also heard he scratched a horse this weekend that is in a race with a Baffert horse. Can't find it, but will post when I do.

Twitter

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Twitter

[cj]

Originally Posted by bob60566

Thinking along those lines and how quiet his stable has been in 2019

I mentioned this on Twitter. Been a down year by Baffert standards even with McKinzie and Game Winner and Improbable. None of them really run like your typical Baffert horses of years past either.

[dilanesp]

Twitter

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Originally Posted by cj

I mentioned this on Twitter. Been a down year by Baffert standards even with McKinzie and Game Winner and Improbable. None of them really run like your typical Baffert horses of years past either.

Certainly not his best, but it has been an interesting year outside of Chad Brown completely dominating top end turf racing.


https://www.equibase.com/stats/View....ear&tb=trainer

[bob60566]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

One of the real problems with the way people speak of problems in horse racing is all the qualifications and euphamisms.

They weren't "giving the impression of trying to hide everything". They were hiding everything. We need to say that loud and clear.

This was not the appearance of impropriety. This was impropriety. It was impropriety even if you think the positive test itself was no big deal. There's a proper procedure here, and that is to have a public hearing and if you are going to clear the horse, to do it in public with public evidence and with everyone knowing exactly what you are doing.

We would have to think that any board member that had conflict of intrest would have withdrawn himself from any vote or decisions.?

[oughtoh]

Originally Posted by clicknow

Before the SA Derby, Justify did not have any points with which to enter the KY Derby. He received 100 points by winning.

I guess one question would be if he had been disqualed, would it have allowed another horse on the bubble to enter the KY Derby that year.

Better yet, lets say another horse won and had a failed drug test and Justify ran second. Would they have DQ'd that horse so Justify would have won and could have went to the Derby for Baffert.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Originally Posted by oughtoh

Better yet, lets say another horse won and had a failed drug test and Justify ran second. Would they have DQ'd that horse so Justify would have won and could have went to the Derby for Baffert.

Justify runs 2nd in that race he was in the Derby.

It was a 7 horse field in which 3 were running for who knows what reason. Outside of Bolt D'Oro, only Core Beliefs and Instilled Regard were of any competition for the top two that battled for favoritism. Heck, even Core Beliefs was 41/1 in the race.

https://www.equibase.com/premium/cha...18&cy=USA&rn=9

I'm in the camp of waiting till all the details really come out as opposed to taking everything in a single article, from a single journalist, from the New York Times says is the real story.

[lex]

Thanks for the info on the testing. I thought maybe the split testing was the first test.

I was thinking that points races might have to be farther out from the Derby but appeals would probably drag it out anyway, and then what?

And all that aside the secrecy involved and the connections being involved. What a mess.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by cj

I mentioned this on Twitter. Been a down year by Baffert standards even with McKinzie and Game Winner and Improbable. None of them really run like your typical Baffert horses of years past either.

Yep.

Everyone has been waiting for one or more of his 3yos to break out and start running progressively higher tops, but they have more or less flat lined so far.