IF Calvin knows..how come no one else does?

[only11]

Originally Posted by sandpit

If Borel was riding in the days of Hartack or Cordero and he tried his tricks, he would likely have zero Derby wins and a bunch of broken bones. Those guys were ruthless and their types don't exist today.

agree %100 they would be closing that hole up quickly

[nijinski]

Originally Posted by sandpit

If Borel was riding in the days of Hartack or Cordero and he tried his tricks, he would likely have zero Derby wins and a bunch of broken bones. Those guys were ruthless and their types don't exist today.

Yes they were and very often kept their competition locked in on the rail,
very clever talented bunch , but I give Calvin credit , he has the guts
and like you said todays jocks are different.

[MNslappy]

Originally Posted by sonnyp

many, many, years ago i actually drove in harness races. i will never forget my first few efforts as a provisional driver.

first off, i was convinced each horse i drove was capable of winning the race, and it was simply a matter of me making the right moves at the right times.

my first half dozen races were abysmal efforts of over driving my horses which ended up in my getting in the way of legitimate contenders in the race. believe me, i heard about it afterward.

my first real learning experience came in a cheap claiming race in which i had the 8 hole on a 1/2 mile track (death) with an old horse i also trained. the old boy wasn't at the top of his game and was pretty ouchy and for the first time in my young driving career i conceeded defeat before the race. in my mind, i had NO CHANCE. as the gate sprung, i took a hold of him and guided him to the rail. i was now more observer than participant. twice around the little 1/2 miler we went. in front of me i saw the race unfold because i could "see them all". i saw other drivers pull and make the front while others pulled and floundered two and eventually three wide.

without even realizing it, my old boy, well in hand having never been used, was progressing steadily up the inside. to my amazement, as we came off turn 4, only the leader and a horse first over, who was out of gas, remained in front of us.

i eased up into that pocket and as the "first over" horse packed it in, i slid out and wore j.p. morel and his favored horse down to win my first parimutuel race. my horse paid $90 plus dollars and i had zero on him.

the point is, sometimes less can be more. many horses are simply overdriven or overridden. to do what borel does takes extreme confidence and extreme patience which other riders simply do not possess.

in the end it always takes the horse but less can be more when it comes to the rider.

this should be the new front page post on PA

[blind squirrel]

Originally Posted by point given

I have watched carefully and come to the conclusion that Calvin Borel is blessed at Churchill Downs, just like Pat Day was. It was passed down to him in a secret ceremony.

Calvin makes Pat Day look like a "slacker"...All those great horses
that Day rode and he has "1 Kentucky Derby"??...Calvin just rode in
to the "Hall of Fame"!

[Pell Mell]

Originally Posted by sandpit

If Borel was riding in the days of Hartack or Cordero and he tried his tricks, he would likely have zero Derby wins and a bunch of broken bones. Those guys were ruthless and their types don't exist today.

I was at the track when Hartack and Cordero and all the rest were riding. The only one I ever saw pull some dirty tricks was Manny Ycaza. Your reading too many old time stories.

You ever been to the backwoods of LA? Calvin cut his teeth with those backwoods riders and can hold his own with any of them. I never saw Hartack or Angel show the balls that Calvin has.

[joanied]

Cordero pulled his share...Manny Y was always getting days for being a bad boy ... but yeah, Calvin has 'them'...no fear at all.
I wish Asmussen would let Calvin ride Rachel his way...she'd be so much better off.

[mannyberrios]

Originally Posted by sandpit

If Borel was riding in the days of Hartack or Cordero and he tried his tricks, he would likely have zero Derby wins and a bunch of broken bones. Those guys were ruthless and their types don't exist today.

Great post!

[Rackon]

Calvin is very good. Duh.

He has great instincts.

He is exceedingly patient.

He is "cool and calm" under pressure.

He could almost ride the Churchill oval with eyes closed.

He puts himself in position to take advantage of other's mistakes.

More importantly, he usually has had the stock in the Derby - not even Calvin "Bo-rail" could get Old Shep in front yesterday. He was "lucky" as well as smart with Mine That Bird. But if you don't got a little bit of horse horse underneath you, hugging the rail won't alone get you the win.

Yesterday, the horses coming back to him...their jocks were just trying to keep their critters goin' as they staggered home - they were lucky to steer them at all, never mind trying to stop Borel.

[joanied]

Originally Posted by sandpit
If Borel was riding in the days of Hartack or Cordero and he tried his tricks, he would likely have zero Derby wins and a bunch of broken bones. Those guys were ruthless and their types don't exist today.


True...that type of jockey is no more...but I don't get what you mean by "Calvin trying his tricks" would get him broken bones...what tricks? That he knows Churchill better than anyone? That he shows no fear and goes where the rest don't want to go?
How is that going to get him beat up...
maybe a Cordero or Hartack would not let him through, since they were also fearless...but other wise, I don't see where you are going with this

[horses4courses]

No rider, in these times, rides that track better than Calvin.

He, very likely, adds at least a couple of lengths to his mounts.

However, he is not going to win anything if the right horse isn't under him.

Pure and simple.

[Rackon]

Originally Posted by horses4courses

No rider, in these times, rides that track better than Calvin.

He, very likely, adds at least a couple of lengths to his mounts.

However, he is not going to win anything if the right horse isn't under him.

Pure and simple.

No kidding.

The last 5 years Borel's gotten better stock to ride, and he's made the most of it.

[tag]

People forget that he got 3rd with Denis of Cork in 2008 by riding him the same way. he broke from post 17, i think, took him back to last and straight to the rail and hugged it pretty much the whole way and got up for third on a horse who could only get 5th in the Ill derby.

[Pell Mell]

Also, he took back yesterday and was sitting 4th shortly after the break. Going down the backstretch some others started to move but he sat chilly and dropped back to about 7th. He lodged his bid at precisely the right time and blew by them. A very well judged ride! The guy is just plain a great rider.

[joanied]

Originally Posted by horses4courses

No rider, in these times, rides that track better than Calvin.

He, very likely, adds at least a couple of lengths to his mounts.

However, he is not going to win anything if the right horse isn't under him.

Pure and simple.

And Calvin said just that several times after the race

[sandpit]

Originally Posted by joanied

Originally Posted by sandpit
If Borel was riding in the days of Hartack or Cordero and he tried his tricks, he would likely have zero Derby wins and a bunch of broken bones. Those guys were ruthless and their types don't exist today.


True...that type of jockey is no more...but I don't get what you mean by "Calvin trying his tricks" would get him broken bones...what tricks? That he knows Churchill better than anyone? That he shows no fear and goes where the rest don't want to go?
How is that going to get him beat up...
maybe a Cordero or Hartack would not let him through, since they were also fearless...but other wise, I don't see where you are going with this

Probably not the right choice of words, I should have said "tactics" instead of tricks. It amazes me that he has been able to get through so many horses with nary a horse getting in his way. Lots of factors, including luck, play into it.Baffert mentioned luck post race, sometimes it's good, sometimes bad.

What would be interesting to see is how Calvin would fare in the Derby if he was on a confirmed speedball, since he hasn't been in that situation in the Derby in a while, if ever.

Really it's all about the horse and its competition. Calvin's first four Derby mounts were Rockamundo, Exchange Rate, Arctic Boy, and Ten Cents a Shine, which wouldn't inspire a lot of confidence even if he was riding like he is now.