Sports Wagering one step closer in NJ....

[SandyW]

Originally Posted by biggestal99

here's the punt:

Most notably, the arguments made by the state regarding federal attorneys last year – that PASPA does not bar a state from removing or amending its sports betting prohibitions – were dismissed here by Shipp, who noted that since the federal government was not (yet) a party to this incarnation of the legal battle, “the leagues are not bound to those conclusions.”

LOL. The leagues are not bound by a federal court opinion, LOL

That's a little preposterous on face value.

Just an inexperienced judge using flawed logic.

Allan

Now your blaming the judge, blame New Jersey for not taking advantage of the federal law back in 1992-93.

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by SandyW

Now your blaming the judge, blame New Jersey for not taking advantage of the federal law back in 1992-93.

The Judge wants nothing more than another court to take this and run...the NFL and other professional sports leagues want Judge Shipp to issue a permanent injunction, that may never come based on the way this temporary restraining order was issued. I see the third circuit getting this again and going forward with allowing sports wagering at MP.

[badcompany]

Good Podcast on the subject. Many of the points made here are brought up:

[SandyW]

Here is where you can listen to the J. Grasso Bloomberg podcast:

http://www.bloomberg.com/podcasts/la...scusses-federa

[biggestal99]

Originally Posted by SandyW

Now your blaming the judge, blame New Jersey for not taking advantage of the federal law back in 1992-93.

As more learned people than I have said. The judge is wrong here and will get overturned on appeal.

as far as 1993 goes that's old news and no need to rehash the mistakes made by the witless admin who had no foresight

Allan

[Canarsie]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

NFL doesnt pay taxes, and now we're letting them have a say in government?

The league doesn't pay taxes due to a federal loophole. If this really irks you I suggest contacting your representatives and ask them to try and do a repeal.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/22/us/nfl-nonprofit-taxes/

According to your logic baseball dropped its tax exempt status so they SHOULD have a say in this. The main reason they did it was because there is no requirement to publish salaries like the NFL and others. One could guess what Bud Selig makes but its just that a "guesstimate".

[Canarsie]

Originally Posted by biggestal99

As more learned people than I have said. The judge is wrong here and will get overturned on appeal.

as far as 1993 goes that's old news and no need to rehash the mistakes made by the witless admin who had no foresight

Allan

Who are these people? Can you please provide a few links so i can educate myself. I would really like to see the quote "the judge is wrong here". Can you provide me some of your credentials so this entire conversation can be grasped better from someone who is not too smart like me.

I'm pretty amazed at your expertise considering you haven't been right on exchange (still waiting) and sports wagering. It's one thing to offer an opinion on any subject but facts need to be presented. When you declare that you're smarter than the judge and other people in the legal field some credibility needs to be shown. Just stating something isn't going to sway neutral people on this or any subject.

[Canarsie]

Let me start this off again by saying I hope NJ gets the chance to implement sports wagering.

Travis said it in one simple statement stating that it's ridiculous for the leagues to claim it will cause irreparable harm to them. That is just pure folly especially for the NFL which continues to get huge ratings even when the score is 42-0. Trust me they aren't watching for the entertainment side of it.

Having said that while it's just my opinion (rehashed) that SW has almost zero chance of being successful without phone and online wagering. The pro's and wiseguys will try to take advantage of any mistakes William Hill makes in the beginning. I just googled "top rated sportsbook in Las Vegas" and low and behold William Hill is nowhere to be found. Yelp doesn't list them either (top 10) and that will be the type of client they will probably get.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...k+in+las+vegas

Maybe they do good at a place where you can wager on the color of the queens hat but that's on the other side of the atlantic.

I also googled the salaries for monmouth park and Darby Development and while performed in haste came up with nothing. I know its leased from the S&EA who wants to charge me five cents a page to review them.

http://www.njsea.com/uploadedFiles/recordsrequest.pdf

How much do these senior executives earn per year? How many have bonus and performance (that I can't review) clauses in their contracts? How many (if any) get a financial incentive if SW becomes legal in NJ? I don't think there are any earth shattering questions here yet I can't find out some simple info that should be public if they aren't going to be regulated. Why should THEY be TRUSTED setting up a board to issue complaints and grievances when it could (I said could) involve people already in their hire. Could friends be thrown into that equation since it can't be regulated by law?

This is the problem I have with SW it really isn't the product. If taxpayer money isn't used let them take a few swings at the plate. I'm not a "I told you so" or "I said" type of person there is no shame in being wrong. Who is exactly on the monmouth park side? I feel like this is a "legitimate" question that should be a matter of public record. I know a few people by name but it isn't like an NFL team that was accused of paying no taxes.

I WANT the racetracks to thrive and be financially solvent. If that happens it will be an asset to the state of NJ. But SW isn't the meal ticket. Do any of you know how much an oddsmaker earns in Vegas? If the answer is "no" look it up and I'm almost 99.9% sure you will be shocked. SW is a side business for Vegas and like previously written about profits can come and go year by year. What happens if William Hill gets whacked (probably not going to happen) and loses a ton of money. Can they pull out or are they obligated by contract to legally stay? Is an alternate readily available just in case something (again probably not going to happen) comes up and prevents them from taking any wagers?

This season will be down the tubes even if they get the injunction lifted. I'm going to strongly disagree with the poster that stated college basketball gets a significant amount of money. Except for march madness the action is minimal at best. Over ten years ago I discovered some colleges that I didn't even know by name who played basketball. Neither my friend nor I knew what state they were in. There is really only one type of person wagering on those games and it isn't grandma and grandpa.

I'm interested to see the rebuttals and agreements to what I wrote (have to stop my back) please let them flow.

[burnsy]

Originally Posted by Canarsie

Let me start this off again by saying I hope NJ gets the chance to implement sports wagering.


I'm interested to see the rebuttals and agreements to what I wrote (have to stop my back) please let them flow.

I kind of stated what would happen early in this.....its gonna be a food fight. The thread in the "off topic" Sports asks. Will sports betting fly in NJ? Do turkeys fly? I don't understand why people get caught up in the details and nuances when its so simple to see. Who gives a crap if the gambling is legit?? For all parties. Why does this country play this big game of claiming to be free, but there's always crap like this? You spent all this time quibbling about, salaries and things most people could care less about when all they want to do is bet. Its commerce and expression of free speech. Its not a moral issue or a majority rules type deal. I could give a crap about the mechanics, which is always a stall tactic. This should be done everywhere. People are already betting illegally all over the place...its a freaking joke....try googling that.......how much of that is reported????? anywhere to any one? When turkeys fly? With the nit picking, it will happen when pigs fly....because people are such turkeys. Most states will let you bet their crooked little lottery......but nothing else. That doesn't stink? Give me a break.

[nearco]

Originally Posted by Canarsie

Having said that while it's just my opinion (rehashed) that SW has almost zero chance of being successful without phone and online wagering. The pro's and wiseguys will try to take advantage of any mistakes William Hill makes in the beginning. I just googled "top rated sportsbook in Las Vegas" and low and behold William Hill is nowhere to be found. Yelp doesn't list them either (top 10) and that will be the type of client they will probably get.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...k+in+las+vegas

Maybe they do good at a place where you can wager on the color of the queens hat but that's on the other side of the atlantic.

The gross revenue for all the Las Vegas sports books combined in 2012 was $170million.
Last year Will Hill had $1.45 billion in revenue.
Las Vegas sportsbooks are minor league compared to the big British Bookies.

[biggestal99]

Originally Posted by Canarsie

Who are these people? Can you please provide a few links so i can educate myself. I would really like to see the quote "the judge is wrong here". Can you provide me some of your credentials so this entire conversation can be grasped better from someone who is not too smart like me.

I'm pretty amazed at your expertise considering you haven't been right on exchange (still waiting) and sports wagering.

Me and lesniek. Joined at the hip.

It is my laymans opinion that the judge is wrong and will be overturned on appeal.

Its just like betting horse racing, everyone has an opinion. The results will come out eventually one way or another.

Allan

[SandyW]

Originally Posted by biggestal99

Me and lesniek. Joined at the hip.

It is my laymans opinion that the judge is wrong and will be overturned on appeal.

Its just like betting horse racing, everyone has an opinion. The results will come out eventually one way or another.

Allan

Getting sports wagering in the near future in New Jersey is a big long shot at best.
The lawyers will keep this going for years to come.

[Canarsie]

Originally Posted by nearco

The gross revenue for all the Las Vegas sports books combined in 2012 was $170million.
Last year Will Hill had $1.45 billion in revenue.
Las Vegas sportsbooks are minor league compared to the big British Bookies.

Thank you for enhancing my point. They don't even have close to 10% of that 170 million. Just because your from GB doesn't mean you're going to succeed over here and vice versa.

I'm pretty sure you don't have to drive long distances to bet a ten or twenty timer in Nevada. Most of the big betters are probably known on a first name basis and wager at least 75% of that 170 million.

The people who are in charge of NJ operations haven't even publicly given an estimate for a yearly total wagered here to the best of my knowledge. Some on here are more confident than they are.

One said they will have a breeders cup type of crowd (but won't wager a $50 donation for the PDJF) while the guy in charge said 5,000.

[horses4courses]

Originally Posted by nearco

The gross revenue for all the Las Vegas sports books combined in 2012 was $170million.
Last year Will Hill had $1.45 billion in revenue.
Las Vegas sportsbooks are minor league compared to the big British Bookies.

Much of UK bookies' revenue is now derived from foreign sources.
They long to include the US market, should this country
ever comes to it's senses regarding sports wagering.
It would be the jewel in their crown.

Comparing Nevada revenues to Will Hill's global rake is unfair.
Add in illegal wagers, both domestic and offshore, that originate
in the US, and then you get a much more accurate number on
this lucrative wagering market.

I praise WH for taking the initial risk starting operations here,
but have issues with the nickel and dime operation that they
bought out, while retaining their mediocre management team.

They are gaining name recognition, and are in a good position
to be a leader should expansion come about.
Chances are, though, that this won't happen anytime soon.

[biggestal99]

Originally Posted by Canarsie

Thank you for enhancing my point. They don't even have close to 10% of that 170 million. Just because your from GB doesn't mean you're going to succeed over here and vice versa.

I'm pretty sure you don't have to drive long distances to bet a ten or twenty timer in Nevada. Most of the big betters are probably known on a first name basis and wager at least 75% of that 170 million.

The people who are in charge of NJ operations haven't even publicly given an estimate for a yearly total wagered here to the best of my knowledge. Some on here are more confident than they are.

One said they will have a breeders cup type of crowd (but won't wager a $50 donation for the PDJF) while the guy in charge said 5,000.

Why did the nfl have to pony up 1.7 large in escrow to pay monmouth in damages if the nfl loses its case?

Seems like the court is overvaluing sports wagering at monmouth?

Btw the restaining order expires on 11-7

League and monmouth are having a difference of opinion in scheduling a hearing,

Monmouth wants it asap but the nfl want to stretch it out as long as possible.

We shall see what the court orders.

Allan

Ps the 170 large is profit on3.45b that was bet in vegas.