Trakus has to go

[Tom]

CJ has been calling our the incompetence of timing since before he worked for TFUS.

Gus, I would be so very happy if they could time to the 1/5 of second. Seems well beyond their pay grade.

[Tom]

1.5 million dollar race coming up and the preps were timed by a 2-bit timing company.

Nice.

Racing - run by morons. And they are proud of it!

[senortout]

I am wondering if others have noted this strange occurence, that is, when, say the 8 horse's 'chicklet' shows his position correctly in 8th position, then suddenly shows him leading the race (in a well-strung out field) then bouncing back and forthe between being on the lead or very close up and quickly back to 8th or so again....all the while your vision is telling you that he has neither gained NOR lost more than a position?....if the chip is affixed in approx the same place on each horse, how is this happening?

[Jeff P]

This is really sad... on a lot of levels.

That said:

CJ, have you considered making an instructional video?...

Maybe call it "How to time a race"...

Nothing terribly involved...

Something along the lines of you recording your computer screen and doing voiceover while using track video to verify published time for a sample race or two.



-jp

.

[HoofedInTheChest]

Originally Posted by senortout

if the chip is affixed in approx the same place on each horse, how is this happening?

Interference with the signal.

There are 2 large barns located at the first turn on the Turf course at Woodbine, and whenever the horses are passing through that particular section, the race is not being timed until they come out of the turn. They are aware of the issue (it's been going on for 2 years), yet the powers that be do nothing about it.

Woodbine has two people hand-timing the Turf races, and more often than not, the times are not even close between the two, so they average out the two different times and send that off to Equibase.....just lovely.

[Tom]

Woodbine used to be my #1 track, but their continued disrespect of their customers had driven me away for good. I used to even drive up their a couple of times a year to says over and play the night cards. Never again.

[HoofedInTheChest]

Originally Posted by Tom

Woodbine used to be my #1 track, but their continued disrespect of their customers had driven me away for good. I used to even drive up their a couple of times a year to says over and play the night cards. Never again.

The only thing that they are concerned about is getting a casino built on the property, that is the sad reality.

[Franco Santiago]

Originally Posted by jay68802

What makes people think that this industry has ever wanted to have accurate information distributed to the public? Drf has published their "speed rating and track variant" forever now, and most people know it is garbage. For a long time, lengths back during the running of the race were guesstimates. The distances on turf are questionable. Different run up distances are not published. They can't even get gelding and lasiks information correct.

Not to mention, bleeder medication!

[Franco Santiago]

Just some general thoughts I have:

If the timing of races is bad and you are a losing horseplayer, do you believe the bad timing is the reason? If so, why are you

a. using time as a handicapping tool? OR,

b. if you MUST use time as a tool because that is what you comfortable with, and you KNOW the timing is bad, why are you even betting in the first place?

Secondly:

If the timing of the races is bad and you are a winning horseplayer, is it because you:

a. don't use time as a handicapping tool; or
b. you use time as a tool and you have just been immensely lucky?

Have you ever tried handicapping NOT using time AT ALL?

You should do it for a week or a month. You will be enlightened, I promise. You might just find that you use time as a crutch because you ain't that good at non-time elements of the game.

But the truth is this: just about every swinging d**k is using time as a handicapping tool. You have pace experts, final time experts, mid-move time experts, distance turn-back experts, yada yada yada. If you think you have an edge because you are using the same thing as everyone else, think again. You know what time gets you? MORE winners and LESS money. If you like winners, stick with time. If you like more money, quit lamenting (and b**tching about) the bad timing of races and let the the LOSERS get it fixed so they can lose some more, hopefully to YOU.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Franco Santiago

Just some general thoughts I have:

If the timing of races is bad and you are a losing horseplayer, do you believe the bad timing is the reason? If so, why are you

a. using time as a handicapping tool? OR,

b. if you MUST use time as a tool because that is what you comfortable with, and you KNOW the timing is bad, why are you even betting in the first place?

Secondly:

If the timing of the races is bad and you are a winning horseplayer, is it because you:

a. don't use time as a handicapping tool; or
b. you use time as a tool and you have just been immensely lucky?

Have you ever tried handicapping NOT using time AT ALL?

You should do it for a week or a month. You will be enlightened, I promise. You might just find that you use time as a crutch because you ain't that good at non-time elements of the game.

But the truth is this: just about every swinging d**k is using time as a handicapping tool. You have pace experts, final time experts, mid-move time experts, distance turn-back experts, yada yada yada. If you think you have an edge because you are using the same thing as everyone else, think again. You know what time gets you? MORE winners and LESS money. If you like winners, stick with time. If you like more money, quit lamenting (and b**tching about) the bad timing of races and let the the LOSERS get it fixed so they can lose some more, hopefully to YOU.

Gee...you must be using some esoteric "non-time element" that we, the "unenlightened masses" are not privy to. I wish you continued success in the future.

[Franco Santiago]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Gee...you must be using some esoteric "non-time element" that we, the "unenlightened masses" are not privy to. I wish you continued success in the future.

Uhm, well, there are some things a person can do predict improvement and such, but I wouldn't say they are esoteric.

Thaskalos, I know you are a devoted student of the game. I know you probably study as much as anyone. I know you probably have a deep, deep understanding of horseracing from all perspectives. Are you are winning player? Who knows. None of my business. Doesn't really matter. I am just throwing out a provocative thought...if people ain't winning, maybe toss time out the window and see if things improve. If you use time, and you are winning, hey, stick with it!

I used to be a devout speed figure and pace guy. Prided myself in having figs for all the tracks long before they were published in DRF. Spent oodles of time doing them. And they worked!!! But, sadly, they don't anymore. Top fig used to get me to about .95 ROI, then I'd have to dig deeper, but not much deeper to get 1.00. Now, top fig will net you about .83 or .84. There no edge, and it's especially poor using figs (pace OR final time) as a tie-breaker.

If racing won't time races correctly, then don't use time! Handicappers just might find themselves doing MUCH better.

I SINCERELY wish you nothing but the best, Thaskalos. I KNOW HOW DEVOTED YOU ARE!!! (from reading your posts). You deserve great things and I hope they have happened to you and that they continue.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Franco Santiago

Uhm, well, there are some things a person can do predict improvement and such, but I wouldn't say they are esoteric.

Thaskalos, I know you are a devoted student of the game. I know you probably study as much as anyone. I know you probably have a deep, deep understanding of horseracing from all perspectives. Are you are winning player? Who knows. None of my business. Doesn't really matter. I am just throwing out a provocative thought...if people ain't winning, maybe toss time out the window and see if things improve. If you use time, and you are winning, hey, stick with it!

I used to be a devout speed figure and pace guy. Prided myself in having figs for all the tracks long before they were published in DRF. Spent oodles of time doing them. And they worked!!! But, sadly, they don't anymore. Top fig used to get me to about .95 ROI, then I'd have to dig deeper, but not much deeper to get 1.00. Now, top fig will net you about .83 or .84. There no edge, and it's especially poor using figs (pace OR final time) as a tie-breaker.

If racing won't time races correctly, then don't use time! Handicappers just might find themselves doing MUCH better.

I SINCERELY wish you nothing but the best, Thaskalos. I KNOW HOW DEVOTED YOU ARE!!! (from reading your posts). You deserve great things and I hope they have happened to you and that they continue.

Data provided to customers should be accurate. How customers decide to use it or not use it is up to them. But there is no excuse to mistime races. They are, after all, races.

[Jeff P]

Exactly.

This thread isn't about whether anyone is a winning or losing player.

It's about the absurdity of having to call out the official timing company (Trakus) of a major racetrack (Santa Anita) over mistiming of races.


-jp

.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by cj

Data provided to customers should be accurate. How customers decide to use it or not use it is up to them. But there is no excuse to mistime races. They are, after all, races.

I could have typed an entire essay...and not have said it any better!

We are not asking the track to calculate track variants, or to supply us with speed and pace figures. We only ask for an accurate timing of the races...which should be a straight-forward, uncomplicated affair. When the track has its hands full trying to properly time the races...our confidence wanes when they presume to tackle the more "complicated" issues...like the game's drug problem.

[AstrosFan]

I would LOVE to see the races actually start at the distance, minus the
run-up b/s we do in the states. Aussie racing starts right at the distance marker! What a brilliant idea!!


I wonder what CJ thinks of the run-up when factoring his speed figures. It must be a headache no?