Why California will not recover.

[Igeteven]

Why California will not recover.

The betting war is on, no doubt about it, I predicted this last year and I warned each track to lower the betting amount and lower the take out.

A friend of mine says, horse racing must stand on it's own. I say impossible in California, there is no money to support it. With the internet. We can travel to each track and play what we want.

Out here, We don't have anything to support it like Monmouth Race Track does. Right now, they're getting the betting dollar from a lot of people in and out of state.

If anyone has gone to Santa Anita, Hollywood Park, and Del Mar, they're huge tracks and it costs tons of money to operate them.


We have a CHRB that is spine less to correct the problems out here and nothing will change until the whole board shows some guts and get things straight to bring back the game and make it whole. However, there is no money to back it up. The Indians have the money out here not the tracks.

Even if the take out was drop to 10 percent, other tracks would follow and we would be back at square one again. Older player such as my friend leave in a dream world and not looking at modern times, we can't live in the past but look forward. I am sick of people looking at the past, we must look forward to improve things and get competitive with the rest of the country. How they do it, it will be interesting, I don't have the answer. I guess, nobody does.

Even if California goes to 10 or 15 percent , drop to a style of betting Kentucky has gone to, I can't see our game out here ever recovering to make it profitable for the player or the owner. Out here, most owners lose their shirt unless they have a very good horse.

So as I see it, there will be 1 or 2 tracks survive and close down the rest.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Isn't the biggest problem in California day pay?

[Igeteven]

Originally Posted by Horseplayersbet.com

Isn't the biggest problem in California day pay?

yes that is one of the problems

Here is the main issue

1. to much take out

2. the surfaces on the tracks

3. their exotics are too high

4. short fields, owners are leaving because their horse can't run on this junk.

Only wealthy owners can foot the bill because of a tax write off.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Originally Posted by Igeteven

yes that is one of the problems

Here is the main issue

1. to much take out

2. the surfaces on the tracks

3. their exotics are too high

4. short fields, owners are leaving because their horse can't run on this junk.

Only wealthy owners can foot the bill because of a tax write off.

Short fields makes it easier on someone paying the high day rates. However, you lose a lot of field size, and a lot of potential gamblers. Since horse racing is dependent on gamblers, future purse money may decline more.

Takeout rates are too high everywhere.

I don't buy the surface excuse, sorry. Woodbine gets pretty good field size on average.

That being said, Woodbine gives out close to half a million a day, and they did barely over 2 million in handle. Even if they did the Monmouth thing and gave out a million a day, it wouldn't be that much more than 2-3 million tops.

It is complicated. That is for sure.

But if takeout rates were to drop everywhere, tracks would be flourishing today.

[Igeteven]

Originally Posted by Horseplayersbet.com

Short fields makes it easier on someone paying the high day rates. However, you lose a lot of field size, and a lot of potential gamblers. Since horse racing is dependent on gamblers, future purse money may decline more.

Takeout rates are too high everywhere.

I don't buy the surface excuse, sorry. Woodbine gets pretty good field size on average.

That being said, Woodbine gives out close to half a million a day, and they did barely over 2 million in handle. Even if they did the Monmouth thing and gave out a million a day, it wouldn't be that much more than 2-3 million tops.

It is complicated. That is for sure.

But if takeout rates were to drop everywhere, tracks would be flourishing today.

What I did notice, fast horses can't run, slow horses can run, nobodfy knows for sure what a horse will do, there is no handicapping out here.

Most of the time it is a grab bag.

[senortout]

Originally Posted by Igeteven

What I did notice, fast horses can't run, slow horses can run, nobodfy knows for sure what a horse will do, there is no handicapping out here.

Most of the time it is a grab bag.

Me, I'm strange, will accept a fast horse vs a slow one over any surface.
The surfaces play fair enough for me to handicap speed and class, thats for sure.

senortout

[rwwupl]

Originally Posted by Igeteven

yes that is one of the problems

Here is the main issue

1. to much take out

2. the surfaces on the tracks

3. their exotics are too high

4. short fields, owners are leaving because their horse can't run on this junk.

Only wealthy owners can foot the bill because of a tax write off.

All those things are true,and you say you do not have any answers. If you feel that way I agree with you.

Why waste your time telling us what everyone knows and complain if you have no idea or have done nothing to correct it?

For long term success this game must stand on its own...racing has existed on patches and crutches for too long.

There is only revenue from gambling that makes this game whole and sustainable, and gambling comes from the fan base. The fan base has shrunk because other gambling games have offered a better deal. The fans must be offered a better deal to grow the fan base(lower the take to optimum level),and a larger fan base at lower take will make all concerned very happy.The people running the tracks have made a mistake and created a climate to take the fans money faster,and that is wrong. We need to send home more winners and let the fans stick around longer and come back tomorrow

Monmouths experiment is a step in the right direction,but not the complete answer...We wish them well. There are many working (HANA and others) to create a workable business model with the cooperation of the Racetracks and Horsemen.

It will happen...and simple economics and positive thinking supporters will ensure it.

I hope we can count on you.

[Igeteven]

Originally Posted by rwwupl

All those things are true,and you say you do not have any answers. If you feel that way I agree with you.

Why waste your time telling us what everyone knows and complain if you have no idea or have done nothing to correct it?

For long term success this game must stand on its own...racing has existed on patches and crutches for too long.

There is only revenue from gambling that makes this game whole and sustainable, and gambling comes from the fan base. The fan base has shrunk because other gambling games have offered a better deal. The fans must be offered a better deal to grow the fan base(lower the take to optimum level),and a larger fan base at lower take will make all concerned very happy.The people running the tracks have made a mistake and created a climate to take the fans money faster,and that is wrong. We need to send home more winners and let the fans stick around longer and come back tomorrow

Monmouths experiment is a step in the right direction,but not the complete answer...We wish them well. There are many working (HANA and others) to create a workable business model with the cooperation of the Racetracks and Horsemen.

It will happen...and simple economics and positive thinking supporters will ensure it.

I hope we can count on you.

Iam going to the next CHRB meeting at Santa Anita, I will be speaking for five minutes and laying out a plan.

One solution is to make the Indian casinos pay a curtain percentage of gaming revenue to the State that can go directly to purses for horse racing.

[DJofSD]

I hope they do go belly up. That way more races can be imported from out of state.

[Igeteven]

Originally Posted by DJofSD

I hope they do go belly up. That way more races can be imported from out of state.

what good does that do, however, a few tracks will still carry on.

[ClassTrumpsSpeed]

Originally Posted by Igeteven

Why California will not recover.

The betting war is on, no doubt about it, I predicted this last year and I warned each track to lower the betting amount and lower the take out.

A friend of mine says, horse racing must stand on it's own. I say impossible in California, there is no money to support it. With the internet. We can travel to each track and play what we want.

Out here, We don't have anything to support it like Monmouth Race Track does. Right now, they're getting the betting dollar from a lot of people in and out of state.

If anyone has gone to Santa Anita, Hollywood Park, and Del Mar, they're huge tracks and it costs tons of money to operate them.


We have a CHRB that is spine less to correct the problems out here and nothing will change until the whole board shows some guts and get things straight to bring back the game and make it whole. However, there is no money to back it up. The Indians have the money out here not the tracks.

Even if the take out was drop to 10 percent, other tracks would follow and we would be back at square one again. Older player such as my friend leave in a dream world and not looking at modern times, we can't live in the past but look forward. I am sick of people looking at the past, we must look forward to improve things and get competitive with the rest of the country. How they do it, it will be interesting, I don't have the answer. I guess, nobody does.

Even if California goes to 10 or 15 percent , drop to a style of betting Kentucky has gone to, I can't see our game out here ever recovering to make it profitable for the player or the owner. Out here, most owners lose their shirt unless they have a very good horse.

So as I see it, there will be 1 or 2 tracks survive and close down the rest.

How about eliminating state and local taxes on winning wagers placed in teh state of california? That would keep the home state's population from straying too far. MONMOUTH is the one that is doomed, unless you can triple the population of New Jersey. Six-figure betting pools are what drives the big tracks, not purse structure or takeout. Laurel tried its 10 percent thing and failed horribly.

[Igeteven]

Originally Posted by ClassTrumpsSpeed

How about eliminating state and local taxes on winning wagers placed in teh state of california? That would keep the home state's population from straying too far. MONMOUTH is the one that is doomed, unless you can triple the population of New Jersey. Six-figure betting pools are what drives the big tracks, not purse structure or takeout. Laurel tried its 10 percent thing and failed horribly.

In this State, everyone in Governement has their hands out

Spend is their game

[ClassTrumpsSpeed]

Originally Posted by Igeteven

Iam going to the next CHRB meeting at Santa Anita, I will be speaking for five minutes and laying out a plan.

One solution is to make the Indian casinos pay a curtain percentage of gaming revenue to the State that can go directly to purses for horse racing.

I still think eliminating state and local taxes on gambling winnings for bets placed in the state is the best way to avoid the problem of money flying to other states. The feds should do it too for bets placed in the US, and then offshore wouldn't be a threat.

If you want to bring the sport to the mases, sponsor computer terminals in bars and restaurants where people can wager online, through their own accounts, and watch the races privately (no license required since it's user-driven).

Personally, however, I like the sport the way it is. Things are as they are for many reasons, most of which are fueled by nature. Embracing that nature (captive degenerate audience, etc.) is wiser than trying to change people's minds. Lower takeout has been tried, and its only plus would be hurting the rebated whales.

[Mr. Nobody]

The cost of keeping horses in training has gone up but purses have not, thus the short fields problem. Del Mar and Santa Anita are still viable because they're a great place to spend a nice day out of doors - Hollywood Park not so much. I think SoCal racing still has a better product than New York because the all weather tracks assure good sized fields for the stakes races, but slot machines at Aqueduct would undoubtedly tip the balance in NY's favor.

[Robert Goren]

Originally Posted by ClassTrumpsSpeed

I still think eliminating state and local taxes on gambling winnings for bets placed in the state is the best way to avoid the problem of money flying to other states. The feds should do it too for bets placed in the US, and then offshore wouldn't be a threat.

If you want to bring the sport to the mases, sponsor computer terminals in bars and restaurants where people can wager online, through their own accounts, and watch the races privately (no license required since it's user-driven).

Personally, however, I like the sport the way it is. Things are as they are for many reasons, most of which are fueled by nature. Embracing that nature (captive degenerate audience, etc.) is wiser than trying to change people's minds. Lower takeout has been tried, and its only plus would be hurting the rebated whales.

When has lower takeouts been tried?