Some Thoughts

[shots]

Claycord – Talk About Politics
JUNE 10, 2016
Worth repeating –
A great explanation of what happened, what could have been done & what to do!
Colonel Phil “Hands” Handley is credited with the highest speed air-to-air gun kill in the history of aerial combat. He flew operationally for all but 11 months of a 26-year career, in aircraft such as the F-86 Sabre, F-15 Eagle, and the C-130A Hercules. Additionally, he flew 275 combat missions during two tours in Southeast Asia in the F-4D and F-4E. His awards include 21 Air Medals, 3 Distinguished Flying Crosses, and the Silver Star.

Here is what Col. Handley wrote in response to Panetta and Dempsey’s claims there was no time to send help to Benghazi.
——————————
Betrayal in Benghazi Phil “Hands” Handley Colonel, USAF (Ret.)
The combat code of the US Military is that we don’t abandon our dead or wounded on the battlefield. In US Air Force lingo, fighter pilots don’t run off and leave their wingmen. If one of our own is shot down, still alive and not yet in enemy captivity, we will either come to get him or die trying.

Among America’s fighting forces, the calm, sure knowledge that such an irrevocable bond exists is priceless. Along with individual faith and personal grit, it is a sacred trust that has often sustained hope in the face of terribly long odds.

The disgraceful abandonment of our Ambassador and those brave ex-SEALs who fought to their deaths to save others in that compound is nothing short of dereliction-of-duty.

Additionally, the patently absurd cover-up scenario that was fabricated in the aftermath was an outright lie in an attempt to shield the President and the Secretary of State from responsibility.

Read the rest here: http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/1913...l-phil-handley

FOR THOSE OF YOU HAVE ACTUALLY TAKEN THE TIME TO READ THIS, DO ONE THING FOR ME AND FORWARD IT!! TO AVOID THIS HAPPENING AGAIN, WHOMEVER GAVE THE “STAND DOWN” ORDER NEEDS TO BE EXPOSED!
One of them wants to be made Commander-in-Chief. God help America if this ever happens

[davew]

Hillary was asleep. Is it possible the Democrats have a penguin ass foreign policy?


There must be many in the military leadership thrilled with the current administration.

[VigorsTheGrey]

An interesting post...what do you suppose the rational behind the stand down order was? What was the purpose of this diplomatic outpost really and the relationship deep covered mission at the annex? I know that there is serious speculation about certain reflagged fishing vessels possibly shipping kadafis various arsenal components to Syria through Turkish ports...I think the stand down was ordered in a damage control effort to ultimately keep illegal weapons shipments from being exposed to global opinion...another Ollie North type deep cover mission gone bad....

[Tom]

mostie and H4H will cite all sorts of counter-points, but the bottom line is what the guys who were there, on the ground say.

She let them die. Period.

[mostpost]

Who is this guy Phil Handley? Some military genius? A man with years of leadership experience? Maybe so, but all I can find is that he was a pilot more than 40 years ago. So, come up with something that convinces me he is more than some hotshot shooting his mouth off.

I have a lot of information that totally destroys everything he says. Right now, I am too busy to present it, but rest assured, I will.

[OntheRail]

Originally Posted by mostpost

Who is this guy Phil Handley? Some military genius? A man with years of leadership experience? Maybe so, but all I can find is that he was a pilot more than 40 years ago. So, come up with something that convinces me he is more than some hotshot shooting his mouth off.

I have a lot of information that totally destroys everything he says. Right now, I am too busy to present it, but rest assured, I will.

I have the Official Democrats Power Point that list all the approved lies in a handy HTML format... Let see Betrayal in Benghazi.. damn this at a big file. I'll cut and paste it later.. you can count on it.

If only Public transit was as predictable as you are MoPo.


Tom you nailed it...

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by mostpost

Who is this guy Phil Handley? Some military genius? A man with years of leadership experience? Maybe so, but all I can find is that he was a pilot more than 40 years ago. So, come up with something that convinces me he is more than some hotshot shooting his mouth off.

I have a lot of information that totally destroys everything he says. Right now, I am too busy to present it, but rest assured, I will.

You can compare your service years as "a grunt" in Korea and White House speaking point notes with this Col. Handley's expert opinion any day, eh.
We're sure that you'll think that you'll destroy everything he says.

[Tom]

Rest assured, he will present whatever lies he is told to present.
I would like him to present it face to face with the REAL Americans who were there on the ground. mopo is a disgrace to their service.

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by Tom

Rest assured, he will present whatever lies he is told to present.
I would like him to present it face to face with the REAL Americans who were there on the ground. mopo is a disgrace to their service.

Nobody tells me anything. Everything I present, I find myself. Let's start with lie # 1. The CIA security team at the annex was told to stand down.
The truth:
The U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence's 15 January 2014 review of the attacks on U.S. facilities in Benghazi viewed video footage documenting the dispatch of a security team to the Mission compound within 20-25 minutes of the first report of the attack, and they found that no "stand down" orders were issued to the security team at the Annex:
After the Diplomatic Security (DS) agent in the Tactical Operations Center at the Temporary Mission Facility alerted the Annex security team that TMF was under attack at 9:40, the Chief of Base called the [redacted] "who advised that he would immediately deploy a force to provide assistance," according to a September 19, 2012, cable.

Two armored vehicles were prepared so the security team could respond from the Annex. Approximately 20-25 minutes after the first call came into the Annex that the Temporary Mission Facility (TMF) was under attack, a security team left the Annex for the Mission compound. In footage taken from the Annex's security cameras, the security team can be observed departing the CIA Annex at 10:03 p.m. Benghazi time.
Lie #2. A rescue team from Tripoli was prevented from leaving from Benghazi
The truth:
. This is partly true. A team made up of security team members and CIA left for Benghazi from Tripoli within about forty five minute of first reports of the attack. A second group was being prepared to leave but was told to stay because their leaving would have left the Embassy in Tripoli totally defenseless.
From Fact check.org
http://www.factcheck.org/2015/02/boehner-and-benghazi/
While military leaders convened at the Pentagon, a six-man security team from the U.S. embassy in Tripoli, including two military personnel, departed for Benghazi at about 12:30 a.m. Rear Adm. Brian Losey, commander at the time of Special Operations Command Africa, did not send all the security forces stationed in Tripoli. He ordered Army Lt. Col. S.E. Gibson’s team to remain in Tripoli to protect the U.S. embassy in the event of an attack there, according to the House Armed Services Committee report.
Gibson was initially “visibly upset” that his team was not dispatched to Benghazi along with the other team from Tripoli, the House report said. A colleague described Gibson as being “furious” at the time at having been ordered to “stand down.” But “Gibson made it clear to the committee that ‘in hindsight’ he believes remaining in Tripoli was appropriate,” the House report said.
“I was not ordered to stand down. I was ordered to remain in place,” Gibson told the House Armed Services Committee. ” ‘Stand down’ implies that we cease all operations, cease all activities. We continued to support the team that was in Tripoli.”

Lie #3
General Carter Ham was removed from his post for trying to aid the Benghazi combatants against orders from Washington.
The Truth:
General Ham himself testified before the House Committee on Armed Services in June 2013 that the decision not to deploy close air support during the attack was made by him based on his assessment of the situation at the time, not because he was ordered to "stand down":
I will admit to giving a lot of thought about close air support. And in the lead up to September 11th, in the discussions about what forces should we have available, it was my determination, obviously with advice from others, but the responsibility was mine as the commander, was that close air support was not the appropriate tool in this situation. In testimony before the same committee, Ham said no one ever refused him any aid he felt was reasonable.

The head of U.S. Africa Command, Gen. Carter Ham, debunked a widespread rumor that he was removed from overseeing the military operation because he wanted to do more militarily that night than he was allowed to by his superiors or the White House.

Immediately following the Benghazi attack, the Internet became rife with speculation that Ham had been pushed out for wanting to do more militarily to help those Americans who were stranded after the attack. Shortly afterward, Ham announced his retirement, further fueling speculation that he was pushed out. Chairman of the House Armed Services Committee Buck McKeon put the question to Ham.

MCKEON: "This might be a good time to ask ... I heard that you had made the statement that you were prepared to go to their aid and somebody told you no and you said you were going anyway. Is that all some supposition that comes from some reporter?"

HAM: "Yes, sir. No one ever told me no."

Lie # 4
Washington turned down request to send aid from Europe and other places.
The Truth.
• Between 6 p.m. and 8 p.m. (Midnight and 2 AM Benghazi), Mr. Panetta held several meetings in the Pentagon with senior officials, Army Gen. Carter Ham, commander of Africa Command, to discuss response options for Benghazi and other contingencies, such as a hostage situation.
During those two hours, Mr. Panetta verbally authorized two Marine platoons in Rota, Spain, to prepare to deploy to Benghazi and Tripoli. He also ordered a special operations force training in Croatia and a U.S.-based special operations force to prepare to deploy to Sigonella.
• At 8:39 p.m. (2:39 Am Benghazi), Mr. Panetta transmitted written authorization for the forces to deploy to Sigonella and Libya. This did not prevent the forces from preparing before this written authorization,
• At about 11:15 p.m. (5:15), a second attack began at the diplomatic compound and the CIA annex building.official said.
• At 1:57 p.m., the European Command special operations force arrived at Sigonella, after the attacks long were over.
• At 2:56 p.m, one Marine platoon arrived in Tripoli, but the other was still in Rota since the attacks were over by the time it was ready to deploy.
• At 3:28 p.m., the U.S.-based special operations force arrived at Sigonella.

There have been a number of statements made by officials in Washington that there was just not enough time to send help to Benghazi. All of you clowns take that to mean they just did not bother. Help was sent. Help was sent from the annex and it arrived in time to evacuate the survivors from the compound to the annex. Help was sent from Tripoli and while it could not save the two ex Seals, it did evacuate the survivors and the bodies of Smith and the Ambassador to Tripoli. And help was sent from Spain, but did not arrive in Tripoli until hours after the attacks were over.

THERE JUST WASN'T ENOUGH TIME!!!!

[mostpost]

From the idiot in the OP
By 11:30 PM, two F-16Cs with drop tanks and each armed with five hundred 20 MM rounds are airborne. Flying at 0.92 mach they will cover the 522 nautical miles directly to NAS Sigonella in 1.08 hours.

· While in-route, the flight lead is informed of the tactical situation, rules of engagement, and radio frequencies to use.



· The jets depart Sigonella at 1:10 AM with full fuel load and cover the 377 nautical miles directly to Benghazi in 0.8 hours, arriving at 1:50 AM… which would be 20 minutes after the arrival of Woods, Doherty and their team.

· Providing that the two F-16s initial pass over the mob, in full afterburner at 200 feet and 550 knots did not stop the attack in its tracks, only a few well placed strafing runs on targets of opportunity would assuredly do the trick.

· Were the F-16s fuel state insufficient to recover at Sigonelli after jettisoning their external drop tanks, they could easily do so at Tripoli International Airport, only one-half hour away.

This was addressed by General Ham in his testimony. At the time Handley is proposing those air strikes, nobody knew who was where. There were no defined lines of combat; there was smoke from many fires. They would have been just as likely to kill Americans as terrorists. Don't confuse what you learned later after months of testimony and investigation with what was known at the time in real life.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by mostpost

Let's start with lie # 1. The CIA security team at the annex was told to stand down.

Three members of that security team have stated, in writing and on video, that they were ordered to stand down. I see no point in expending the energy to read, let alone debunk, the rest of your third-hand Kool-Aid addled propaganda beyond "Lie #1". Have a nice day.

A U.S. security team in Benghazi was held back from immediately responding to the attack on the American diplomatic mission on orders of the top CIA officer there, three of those involved told Fox News’ Bret Baier.
...
Word of the attack on the diplomatic compound reached the CIA annex just after 9:30 p.m. Within five minutes, the security team at the annex was geared up for battle, and ready to move to the compound, a mile away.

“Five minutes, we're ready,” said Paronto, a former Army Ranger. “It was thumbs up, thumbs up, we're ready to go.”

But the team was held back. According to the security operators, they were delayed from responding to the attack by the top CIA officer in Benghazi, whom they refer to only as “Bob.”

“It had probably been 15 minutes I think, and … I just said, ‘Hey, you know, we gotta-- we need to get over there, we're losing the initiative,’” said Tiegen. “And Bob just looks straight at me and said, ‘Stand down, you need to wait.’”

http://insider.foxnews.com/2014/09/05/benghazi-bombshell-security-team-told-stand-down-top-cia-officer

P.S. Please go ahead and further destroy your shattered credibility by "proving" the above is wrong because I posted it, and because my source was Fox News.

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by Clocker

Three members of that security team have stated, in writing and on video, that they were ordered to stand down. I see no point in expending the energy to read, let alone debunk, the rest of your third-hand Kool-Aid addled propaganda beyond "Lie #1". Have a nice day.



http://insider.foxnews.com/2014/09/05/benghazi-bombshell-security-team-told-stand-down-top-cia-officer

P.S. Please go ahead and further destroy your shattered credibility by "proving" the above is wrong because I posted it, and because my source was Fox News.

What you have is a TV interview from three cowboys. Guys who couldn't get a real job when they left the service, so they had to hire on as security in a god forsaken country.

What I have is the testimony and conclusions of The House Intelligence Committee. A committee that I remind you was run by Republicans.
https://intelligence.house.gov/sites...i%20Report.pdf

Once again, I am unable to copy and paste. Finding # 6 starting on Page 19 states that a upon receiving word of the attacks, the Annex chief of security began assembling a team and began briefing them on the situation as he knew it. While they were doing that and preparing their weapons and vehicles, the Chief of Base (maybe Bob?) was trying to obtain heavy weapons and support from local friendly militia groups. The team was told to hold in place-not stand down-for a few minutes while those attempts were undertaken. When such aid was not forthcoming, the team left the annex about fifteen minutes after first word of the attack was received. Finding #7 states that a review of available eye witness testimony, video footage, closed circuit TV and other sources, provides not support for the allegation that there was any stand down order. There was merely a disagreement among security personnel over how quickly to proceed.

The committee's final word on the matter was "That the Annex team left if a timely and appropriate manner."

But you continue to believe the opinions of three cowboys over the testimony and evidence of a house committee.

[Tom]

What an embarrassment to this country you are.
What a despicable person.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by mostpost

What you have is a TV interview from three cowboys. Guys who couldn't get a real job when they left the service, so they had to hire on as security in a god forsaken country.

What I have is the testimony and conclusions of The House Intelligence Committee. A committee that I remind you was run by Republicans.

Standard operating procedure: a personal attack on the messengers. The House Intelligence Committee knows more about what happened that night than three "cowboys" on the scene, whom the CIA vetted and hired as qualified to work security at a foreign consulate and were on the scene? And you know this based on what, other than appeal to authority? You dismiss experienced veterans who worked dangerous jobs in defense of their countrymen as "cowboys"? On what basis?

You dismiss them as "cowboys" without a clue as to their qualifications or knowledge because they don't fit your narrative. I am not a Republican, and without good evidence, I put no more faith in the competence of a Republican member of the "Intelligence" Committee than a Democrat.

And I put no faith or credence in your unsubstantiated screed about things that you have no knowledge of. I'll take the word of the "cowboys" until they are proven wrong. You have yet to provide any evidence that contradicts the testimony of people that were there.

[Tom]

You dismiss experienced veterans who worked dangerous jobs in defense of their countrymen as "cowboys"? On what basis?

He wore a uniform, too.....just like Cliffy Claven and Newman.
Puts him in the know.