I this asking too much?

[jasperson]

I think that the on track handicapper owes us more information than they are giving us. Example, if a horse has been laid off what is the reason? Yesterday in the first race the horse had two good races and had a clunker in his last race. He was than laid off for 67 days ,why? He then had 3 solid works so I bet him anyway, but I would have like to have known what problem he had. The on track handicapper has access to the stable area and can ask trainers about lay offs. They might not get an answer but at least they need to try. I don't listen to a lot of handicapper because they are not giving me anything that I can't get out the pp. You can tell a lot about a horse by just looking at him in the stall.

[bello]

What track are you referring to?
It may be to much to ask from an announcer, I;ll let Vic Stouffer take that on, but the best move NYRA has made over the last few years is Maggie. She is a horse reader and though she may ( and likely will not ) know why a horse is laid off, she will give you a great read on the horses fitness, attitiude. ability to go longt, ability to run on the grass. And fot those who don't heed her advice they do so at their own risk.

Problem is Maggie is one of a kind. Other tracks have tried but no one is as good as Maggie.

More specific to your question, It may be great to know why horses were laid off but that is not going to be common knowledge with your overnight entrants. And if it was itstill may not lead you in the right direction. DRF does list vet scratches which I make sure to view, but they will somtimes win of course,

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by bello

What track are you referring to?
It may be to much to ask from an announcer, I;ll let Vic Stouffer take that on, but the best move NYRA has made over the last few years is Maggie. She is a horse reader and though she may ( and likely will not ) know why a horse is laid off, she will give you a great read on the horses fitness, attitiude. ability to go longt, ability to run on the grass. And fot those who don't heed her advice they do so at their own risk.

Problem is Maggie is one of a kind. Other tracks have tried but no one is as good as Maggie.

More specific to your question, It may be great to know why horses were laid off but that is not going to be common knowledge with your overnight entrants. And if it was itstill may not lead you in the right direction. DRF does list vet scratches which I make sure to view, but they will somtimes win of course,

I love Maggie's work. Only problem with what the OP is asking for is that Maggie isn't allowed to speak about Claiming races (90% of the time), which I would guess covers most situations where health matters most.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by bello

What track are you referring to?
It may be to much to ask from an announcer, I;ll let Vic Stouffer take that on, but the best move NYRA has made over the last few years is Maggie. She is a horse reader and though she may ( and likely will not ) know why a horse is laid off, she will give you a great read on the horses fitness, attitiude. ability to go longt, ability to run on the grass. And fot those who don't heed her advice they do so at their own risk.

Problem is Maggie is one of a kind. Other tracks have tried but no one is as good as Maggie.

More specific to your question, It may be great to know why horses were laid off but that is not going to be common knowledge with your overnight entrants. And if it was itstill may not lead you in the right direction. DRF does list vet scratches which I make sure to view, but they will somtimes win of course,

If it's a stakes or high level allowance horse the publicity staff might have that kind of info in their daily notes.

If it's a claiming horse be sure and wear good light shoes if you go up to the stall to have a look see or ask around. Because you'll be in a full sprint with a pitchfork about to go up your ass.

[Alwaysonpoint36]

Originally Posted by jasperson

I think that the on track handicapper owes us more information than they are giving us. Example, if a horse has been laid off what is the reason? Yesterday in the first race the horse had two good races and had a clunker in his last race. He was than laid off for 67 days ,why? He then had 3 solid works so I bet him anyway, but I would have like to have known what problem he had. The on track handicapper has access to the stable area and can ask trainers about lay offs. They might not get an answer but at least they need to try. I don't listen to a lot of handicapper because they are not giving me anything that I can't get out the pp. You can tell a lot about a horse by just looking at him in the stall.

You seem to be leaning towards daily injury reporting, like in the NFL, where there is some sort of accountability to explain an absence. I don't see that happening...ever.

[jasperson]

Originally Posted by bello

What track are you referring to?
It may be to much to ask from an announcer, I;ll let Vic Stouffer take that on, but the best move NYRA has made over the last few years is Maggie. She is a horse reader and though she may ( and likely will not ) know why a horse is laid off, she will give you a great read on the horses fitness, attitiude. ability to go longt, ability to run on the grass. And fot those who don't heed her advice they do so at their own risk.

Problem is Maggie is one of a kind. Other tracks have tried but no one is as good as Maggie.

More specific to your question, It may be great to know why horses were laid off but that is not going to be common knowledge with your overnight entrants. And if it was itstill may not lead you in the right direction. DRF does list vet scratches which I make sure to view, but they will somtimes win of course,

It was at aqu. I am not talking about announcers it the track handicapper whose only duty is to handicap the races at that track. Yes I listen to Maggie and to Jill Byrns at cd. because they give information I like to have. I think it is the duty for the track handicapper to watch work outs,check the vet list for cause of scratches from races among other things. It is sure is helpful to have a handicapper state(trainer so & so puts up rider so & so up.) that info I get from the racing form.

[mountainman]

Originally Posted by jasperson

I think that the on track handicapper owes us more information than they are giving us. Example, if a horse has been laid off what is the reason? Yesterday in the first race the horse had two good races and had a clunker in his last race. He was than laid off for 67 days ,why? He then had 3 solid works so I bet him anyway, but I would have like to have known what problem he had. The on track handicapper has access to the stable area and can ask trainers about lay offs. They might not get an answer but at least they need to try. I don't listen to a lot of handicapper because they are not giving me anything that I can't get out the pp. You can tell a lot about a horse by just looking at him in the stall.

With respect, sir, yes, you're asking way too much. I'll keep this short: Your suggestion creates an overriding catch 22..If a trainer divulges that a horse has serious issues, and that animal then breaks down ( and perhaps hurts a rider), that horseman is in real trouble. On the other hand, why disclose that a horse is sound or has manageable issues and thus limit the options of dropping in class?

In addition, lots of trainers lie FOR A LIVING, so your chances of getting straight answers are nil to start with.

[the little guy]

I love this thread.

[shots]

Originally Posted by jasperson

I think that the on track handicapper owes us more information than they are giving us. Example, if a horse has been laid off what is the reason? Yesterday in the first race the horse had two good races and had a clunker in his last race. He was than laid off for 67 days ,why? He then had 3 solid works so I bet him anyway, but I would have like to have known what problem he had. The on track handicapper has access to the stable area and can ask trainers about lay offs. They might not get an answer but at least they need to try. I don't listen to a lot of handicapper because they are not giving me anything that I can't get out the pp. You can tell a lot about a horse by just looking at him in the stall.

Silence makes for great prices.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by jasperson

It was at aqu. I am not talking about announcers it the track handicapper whose only duty is to handicap the races at that track. Yes I listen to Maggie and to Jill Byrns at cd. because they give information I like to have. I think it is the duty for the track handicapper to watch work outs,check the vet list for cause of scratches from races among other things. It is sure is helpful to have a handicapper state(trainer so & so puts up rider so & so up.) that info I get from the racing form.

As a bettor isn't it your duty to handicap the races? Do you want the track handicapper to mark your program for which bets to make as well?

[Ruffian1]

The claiming game is similar to a card game in that a trainer might be bluffing, or not, when they drop a horse down, or raise one up for that matter.

Telling everyone what their reasoning is for each action before the race is the same as telling all the other trainers what cards they are holding as they raise the pot in the middle of a hand.

And, as Mountainman said, in today's world of liability it wouldn't take long for Dewey,Screwim, and Howe to go after a trainer if anything unforeseen happened.

That is why what you want can't happen in claiming races.

[Ruffian1]

Originally Posted by jasperson

It was at aqu. I am not talking about announcers it the track handicapper whose only duty is to handicap the races at that track. Yes I listen to Maggie and to Jill Byrns at cd. because they give information I like to have. I think it is the duty for the track handicapper to watch work outs,check the vet list for cause of scratches from races among other things. It is sure is helpful to have a handicapper state(trainer so & so puts up rider so & so up.) that info I get from the racing form.

The vets list and the daily reasons for scratches were always posted in the racing secretary's office for the public to see when I was there.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by mountainman

With respect, sir, yes, you're asking way too much. I'll keep this short: Your suggestion creates an overriding catch 22..If a trainer divulges that a horse has serious issues, and that animal then breaks down ( and perhaps hurts a rider), that horseman is in real trouble. On the other hand, why disclose that a horse is sound or has manageable issues and thus limit the options of dropping in class?

In addition, lots of trainers lie FOR A LIVING, so your chances of getting straight answers are nil to start with.

Wait just a minute Mr. Mountain.

I have to take issue with your statement that "lots of trainers lie for a living"

C'mon man.

You're better than that.

You know very well that "ALL" trainers lie for a living!!

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by the little guy

I love this thread.

What's your problem?

All you have to do is change the days from 24 to 30 hours.

Seems simple enough.

People. Horseplayers win because they are willing to put in the work that others don't.

Now some of you want that done for you?

I don't think so. I do the work and it pays off.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by jasperson

I think that the on track handicapper owes us more information than they are giving us. Example, if a horse has been laid off what is the reason? Yesterday in the first race the horse had two good races and had a clunker in his last race. He was than laid off for 67 days ,why? He then had 3 solid works so I bet him anyway, but I would have like to have known what problem he had. The on track handicapper has access to the stable area and can ask trainers about lay offs. They might not get an answer but at least they need to try. I don't listen to a lot of handicapper because they are not giving me anything that I can't get out the pp. You can tell a lot about a horse by just looking at him in the stall.

The grey area that this enters is in the need to gather up as much information as possible, there can be a tendency to not 'vet out' the info and make sure it's factual info and not guesswork. There are certain ways to piece the puzzle together, if a horse has a long layoff I have the ability to read context, watch warmups and see how the horse is hitting the ground, how does his coat look, previous tapes? Also, other things like gut feel can be used, I can make a really good guess on all available information and piece that puzzle together without having to worry if what I'm hearing is a lie or not, like many in this thread suggested, it might be something that's entirely misleading.