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Old 03-27-2012, 06:51 PM   #271
elysiantraveller
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To all of you that think this kid got what he deserved, or that Zimmerman is innocent...

MILLIONS OF COURTS HAVE RULED FOLLOWING SOMEONE TO BE A HOSTILE ACT.

To anyone with a CCW you KNOW that the bulk of the class time to get your permit discusses in depth how to AVOID situations where you might need to use your weapon.

Valuist, Boxcar, Bigmack, et al. I have a question for you...

Do you consider being followed a hostile act? Yes or No?

Stand Your Ground is the law that might save Z... apply the same the law to Martin.

Last edited by elysiantraveller; 03-27-2012 at 06:58 PM.
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:54 PM   #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
Protect himself from what, specifically? Please answer this. Do you have a story you can post that says that Zim assaulted Martin? Do you have a story that shows that Zim initiated the assault?

Boxcar
If someone was following you would you consider it a hostile act?
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:57 PM   #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
Do you consider being followed a hostile act? Yes or No?


HELL NO.

But I get it, you think this nerd got what he deserved, with the 'beat down' and all. Sorry for the kid, "When you play with fire."

You've alluded to being quick to knock out anyone you feel tailin' you. I don't know what part of MI you're in but from where I come from you do that and it's a good chance you ain't walkin' away unscathed, let alone alive.
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:05 PM   #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
Zimmermann doesn't go out with a gun and NONE OF THIS HAPPENS!
Agree completely.
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:06 PM   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
apparently if you are black though those don't mean anything...


Get the hell outta here with both you ls with that crap.

Dumbshits buying into the media driven drivel.
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:08 PM   #276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmack


HELL NO.

But I get it, you think this nerd got what he deserved, with the 'beat down' and all. Sorry for the kid, "When you play with fire."

You've alluded to being quick to knock out anyone you feel tailin' you. I don't know what part of MI you're in but from where I come from you do that and it's a good chance you ain't walkin' away unscathed, let alone alive.
I like when you have nothing to stand on you divert to my toughness and the socio-economic status of the state I live in...

You don't feel being tailed, as you put it like its Miami Vice or something, isn't hostile? Come on man be honest. When you walk through a rough neighborhood or through a crummy downtown do you not look over your shoulder? Be honest. You can say no which just means you are way too tough to even care if you are being followed.

Second, the Stand Your Ground law is being used to defend Z but the guy who threw a punch at the guy following him was just unlucky?.... thats rich...

Last edited by PaceAdvantage; 03-28-2012 at 12:26 AM. Reason: STOP WITH THE RACE RHETORIC
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:12 PM   #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmack


Get the hell outta here with both you ls with that crap.

Dumbshits buying into the media driven drivel.
I'm sorry but what else do we have left to explain it?

"Man that kid sure picked the wrong guy to stand his ground with..."

Seriously...?
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:15 PM   #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
When you walk through a rough neighborhood or through a crummy downtown do you not look over your shoulder? Be honest. You can say no and I'll call BS.
Question your toughness? You're the one saying if anyone was following (is that better than tailing?) you, you would go and escalate shit real quick. Isn't that what you said? Sure it is. And it's also the defense you're now putting up for TM.

Fine. UNFORTUNATELY, irrational, confrontational, hot-heads, (say, like yourself & TM) that go and punch somebody out sometimes end up real DEAD. Feel me?

I've walked down plenty of sketchy neighborhoods. I can tell you the one thing I would NEVER do, back track and confront someone I felt was following me. That, my man, is total stupidity.

You act as if this was the first time some wannabe cop, nerd went around a gated community and asked someone what they were doing.

I've lived in a number of gated communities and saw it all the time.

No one died.

Last edited by bigmack; 03-27-2012 at 07:16 PM.
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:20 PM   #279
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But you make it sound like this kid picked the fight and threw the first act of aggression. He did neither. The guy who has hit police officers as well as his ex-fiance did... oh did I mention he was carrying a gun?

When your neighbors are asking people what they are doing there do they get out of their car? Do they carry guns?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmack
You act as if this was the first time some wannabe cop, nerd went around a gated community and asked someone what they were doing.
And you act like when they kill kids its just "no big deal."

Last edited by elysiantraveller; 03-27-2012 at 07:23 PM.
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:27 PM   #280
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I wonder how many white friend this boy had. I'll bet you none.

Last edited by gl45; 03-27-2012 at 07:30 PM.
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:32 PM   #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
If someone was following you would you consider it a hostile act?
I might. But I wouldn't consider it as an assault upon my person. All of a sudden, self-defense has become redefined to include how many kinds of real or perceived "hostile" acts? How 'bout, I'm walking down the street and a black guy wearing a hoodie gives me a really angry hostile look and follows me with his eyes. Would that be justification for me to go over and pop the guy upside his jaw?

Or I'm walking down the street and some black guy starts swearing at me and yelling racial epithets, would I then be justified in taking out my brass knuckles because I didn't care much for his brand of hostility-laden free speech?

Where do you draw the line? I know where I would draw the line because I know where that line is biblically drawn. And I have a strong suspicion that if Martin hadn't acted in ignorance and knew where that line was drawn, he would probably be alive today -- assuming, of course, Zim didn't initiate the physical contact that ensued between them.

Did not even Jesus say, hyperbolically, "to turn the other cheek". In other words, do all in your power to avoid conflicts. It's not surprising at all that the world's wisdom teaches us to do differently.

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Old 03-27-2012, 07:33 PM   #282
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I agree that if Zimmerman doesn't carry the gun, then Martin doesn't get shot by Zimmerman. Zimmerman actually doesn't know if Martin has or hasn't a weapon. He could have been anyone. He could have been another Zimmerman with a gun, who knows. We also don't know that Zimmerman displayed that weapon at any prior time to the shooting. And if there was indeed a serious fight with head bashing to pavement and/or buildings, either one of them could have killed each other. But obviosly normally, there shouldn't be any physical contact, let alone figing and shooting, no dead nor any injured people.

I'm not totaly convinced on following somene being an act of agression - I think if depends on how far away. 10 feet, hell yes. 100 feet, not sure. 200 feet, don't think so. Staying about a block away would seem about right - not knowing the size of the blocks on this housng developement. Close enough to see but not to seeming invade personal space.

Remember, if anyone else, someone other than Zimmerman, was walking through the complex, maybe for exercise, or coming back from a similar errand, etc, maybe walking on their way home, they would be entitied to walk near or even past Martin without a conflict occring. That doesn't mean one or the other might not understand.

If Martin got upset with being followed and then attacked Zimmerman, I don't know that that is justified. Depends on distance, and maybe ofther factors. But following is just following. Watching is just watching. We know nothing about a piece being displayed. I certainly would walk slowly away if they had a piece displayed, or yell for help. I sure as hell wouldn't charge the person with the gun. Of course, I'm an experienced adult, not a young person ('amature person', as I have to remind myself of teens and kids - having no kids of my own.)

Living in the city, with public transportation, people follow each other here for a few blocks all the time. Even in the dark. Not always comfortable, but it happens, we all need to get to and from where we're going.

If both the parties intentions were innocent, it seems they both gave off visual cues that were interpreted as threatening. One continuing to follow someone trying to lose them makes it seems they are being chased with intent, and withouth verbal contact, maybe possible harm. One following a person who one wonders why they are there and looking out for potential criminaly activity, and then the person tries to lose them, sends off a queue that one might think the other is up to no good.

Actually, going back to my current an past neighborhoods, and normal hours, people walk around, even in the early-middle evening, in the dark or daylight, just for exercise. They might not even be going anywhere.

I wish Martin had just gone on to his destination (that we've been told). I wish Zimmerman had not followed, or had stayed so far back as to not draw Martin to go toward him.

Normally, when in doubt, wait. And most often, nothing happens.
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:35 PM   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Fischer
There are conflicting eye witnesses and Zimmerman was not treated until the next day.
I only read of one, whose name is being kept under wraps. And so what, he was treated the next day? It would have said a lot more if he hadn't been treated at all!

Boxcar
P.S. Maybe Zim has a hard head. And maybe it's a good thing for him that he has.
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:36 PM   #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
And you act like when they kill kids its just "no big deal."
Sure. I grieve every death, everywhere. Just like you.

I just try and use common sense in life. If a person dies sky diving, while tragic, it goes with the gig.

If you choose to go beat down someone because they're following you or they ask you what you're doing there, well, enough already...

We'll see how this plays out. I know you're rooting for the nerd to rot in jail.

Good for you.
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:39 PM   #285
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Let's face it. If Martin is riding a bike or driving in a car, he likely goes straight to his destination and nothing happens. Maybe Zimmerman notices the strange car or bike, but he goes on his way. If he sees the bike or later, but doesn't see a kid, or see's him with other residents, nothing happens, normal sweet normal. But it is on foot, following. And the intended event-arriving back at the friend/family home, doesn't get played out. All this based on the various accounts - but as we've learned we can't be totally sure about just about anything we've heard, other than there is one dead kid, and a person whose weapon was used to kill him.
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