MTR race8 Aug8...Fix is in!

[AltonKelsey]

The ride on the turn was suspect, but could well have been the horse acting badly. Impossible to know. Where is this explanation by the jock?





The odds jumping late means nothing. Happens all the time there.


I'd like to have seen the warmup .

[mountainman]

Guys, if you know Oliveros and are familiar with his rep, then you realize there is zero chance he took money to pull a horse up. You guys know me, and if I wasn't sure, I would simply dodge this thread, NOT defend the jock.

In addition, I saw it coming even as the field banked into the turn. I told Nance: "This horse isn't moving right. Watch, Nance, watch, this #@$%*& is going to pull up."

And, please, don't interpret a perhaps impending form reversal as proof of larceny. Inside word has the issue as minor and very fixable. But I WILL not vouch for that.

[metro]

Jockey on the horse, the other favorite, wasn't exactly putting on a riding clinic either.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by mountainman

And, please, don't interpret a perhaps impending form reversal as proof of larceny. Inside word has the issue as minor and very fixable. But I WILL not vouch for that.

But isn't that a big part of the problem right there, Mountainman? In such cases...should the "inside word" remain secretive? Doesn't the track feel that the customers deserve a reasonable explanation after a race like this...or should the jockey's post-race comments be enough?

[PaceAdvantage]

I would also think, if someone wants to put one over on the public in racing, there are way more subtle ways to go about it...

[jay68802]

Originally Posted by metro

Jockey on the horse, the other favorite, wasn't exactly putting on a riding clinic either.

If your looking for riders putting on a "riding clinic", then the Mountain is probably not where you want to be. Nothing against the jockeys there, just that there are much better at other venues. Did not see much to make me think the jockey was doing anything wrong.

[metro]

Originally Posted by jay68802

If your looking for riders putting on a "riding clinic", then the Mountain is probably not where you want to be. Nothing against the jockeys there, just that there are much better at other venues. Did not see much to make me think the jockey was doing anything wrong.

Just taking the jockey's effort, or lack thereof, into to context with the ride on the other favorite.

[AltonKelsey]

Be grateful these 'locks' run out once in a while, else the show bettors would have all the money in the world in short order.



imo , they run in more often than they should, given the incentive to bust those guys out.

[jimmyb]

Race under investigation by the West Virginia Racing Commission (WVRC)

"At the midway point on the turn, Utana began drifting too, and the head-on replay showed Oliveros remaining mostly still with his upper body as the mare fanned ever wider while still in last place."

http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com...investigation/

[FlintAtTheFetlock]

Originally Posted by cj

https://youtu.be/1cbf7JlKtDU

Unrelated technical question. Every time I see what looks like a posted video I get a BLACK square window. I click on, under, right click, never get anything to happen. Is there something I need to be able to view video attachments? I notice QUOTE'ing this post I see a LINK that I did not see in normal reading pane. I click and still get nothing. Suggestions? THX

[cj]

Originally Posted by FlintAtTheFetlock

Unrelated technical question. Every time I see what looks like a posted video I get a BLACK square window. I click on, under, right click, never get anything to happen. Is there something I need to be able to view video attachments? I notice QUOTE'ing this post I see a LINK that I did not see in normal reading pane. I click and still get nothing. Suggestions? THX

Have to ask PA about this one.

[mountainman]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

But isn't that a big part of the problem right there, Mountainman? In such cases...should the "inside word" remain secretive? Doesn't the track feel that the customers deserve a reasonable explanation after a race like this...or should the jockey's post-race comments be enough?

Gus, this issue is not unique to mnr. No trainer ANYWHERE will publicly divulge that sort of info. It's a lose/ lose proposition for the horseman. You're an extremely sharp guy and realize the degree of transparency we may BOTH wish for is just not in the cards.

And "inside" is a very, very (and purposely, in this case) vague term on my part. Look. The trainer in this case is one of my best pals on earth...my brother is an official who overheard a well-respected state vet discussing the incident...that same brother used to hustle Oliveros book...and I have excellent pipelines to Olivero's current agent...and have thus heard details of his post-race account.

So I speak with authority here, and feel like I bent over backwards-and came dangerously close to violating a few confidences- in trying to enlighten you guys on this incident. And I know, my good and respected friend, that you are certainly not seeking a "gotcha" moment at my expense. But when I enter territory this tricky, SOMEbody usually does.

So let me simply give my OWN opinion and say that I wonder . now in the aftermath of her cruising win first time here at Mnr , if Oliveros was merely THAT confident so as to wrap up on her by the 5/16 pole..or if, just maybe, he was a bit leery of asking her to extend??? And I DID exclaim to Nance 300 yards into this controversial outing that I thought the horse was moving oddly and WOULD be pulled up.

And as far as inside dope goes...I WILL amend my original post and disclose that the horse's true condition has now become a topic of dispute among those in the know. And, I will say that Craig Cox was shocked by the pull-up. There is nothing else I can say that would be appropriate on my part.

And I have NO intention of exposing myself to the slightest job-risk. Heck, I can think of at least one (extremely sneaky and passively aggressive) Mnr employee right NOW who I guarantee is combing through this post in eager pursuit of a "gotcha" slip.

Hope all is well, Gus. It's my pleasure to return your post.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by FlintAtTheFetlock

Unrelated technical question. Every time I see what looks like a posted video I get a BLACK square window. I click on, under, right click, never get anything to happen. Is there something I need to be able to view video attachments? I notice QUOTE'ing this post I see a LINK that I did not see in normal reading pane. I click and still get nothing. Suggestions? THX

No idea...must be browser related...are you blocking pop-ups on PA? Are you blocking ads? That may be it...

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by mountainman

Gus, this issue is not unique to mnr. No trainer ANYWHERE will publicly divulge that sort of info. It's a lose/ lose proposition for the horseman. You're an extremely sharp guy and realize the degree of transparency we may BOTH wish for is just not in the cards.

And "inside" is a very, very (and purposely, in this case) vague term on my part. Look. The trainer in this case is one of my best pals on earth...my brother is an official who overheard a well-respected state vet discussing the incident...that same brother used to hustle Oliveros book...and I have excellent pipelines to Olivero's current agent...and have thus heard details of his post-race account.

So I speak with authority here, and feel like I bent over backwards-and came dangerously close to violating a few confidences- in trying to enlighten you guys on this incident. And I know, my good and respected friend, that you are certainly not seeking a "gotcha" moment at my expense. But when I enter territory this tricky, SOMEbody usually does.

So let me simply give my OWN opinion and say that I wonder . now in the aftermath of her cruising win first time here at Mnr , if Oliveros was merely THAT confident so as to wrap up on her by the 5/16 pole..or if, just maybe, he was a bit leery of asking her to extend??? And I DID exclaim to Nance 300 yards into this controversial outing that I thought the horse was moving oddly and WOULD be pulled up.

And as far as inside dope goes...I WILL amend my original post and disclose that the horse's true condition has now become a topic of dispute among those in the know. And, I will say that Craig Cox was shocked by the pull-up. There is nothing else I can say that would be appropriate on my part.

And I have NO intention of exposing myself to the slightest job-risk. Heck, I can think of at least one (extremely sneaky and passively aggressive) Mnr employee right NOW who I guarantee is combing through this post in eager pursuit of a "gotcha" slip.

Hope all is well, Gus. It's my pleasure to return your post.

Mark...I sincerely hope that you know how highly I regard you as a person, and how much respect I have for your point of view. OF COURSE I'm not seeking any "gotcha" moments at your expense...and I apologize if my post even HINTED of such a thing. Nor am I suggesting that you endanger your position by divulging information that others have confided in you. I know full-well that this "secrecy" business isn't strictly a Mountaineer phenomenon; my use of the word "track" was meant in a general sense.

Here is where I stand on this matter:

I initially suspected Oliveros of wrongdoing...and it took the personal knowledge that you have conveyed to us here to change my mind. But the betting public at large has no access to your personal knowledge of this matter...and, they can't be blamed for continuing to harbor dark suspicions about that particular race. There was bridgejumping going on, the horse finished the race with good energy...and the race-call left certain doubts in the public's mind about the authenticity of the race's outcome. These three things grouped together warrant an explanation from the track, IMO...to dispel the controversy that will surely arise if this horse happens to cruise to a victory in its next start. In special cases like these, the tracks cannot proceed with their "business-as-usual" attitude. And I am talking about ALL the tracks when I say this. Time must be taken, and an effort must be made, to explain certain things to the wagering public...lest the game's "integrity problem" continue to snowball in the future. Some cases are commonplace and can be safely ignored...while other cases are of a "special" nature, and warrant an explanation. And, IMO...this particular case is of the latter variety.

My best regards go out to you...and I assure you that the pleasure is all mine whenever we interact here.

[chenoa]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Mark...I sincerely hope that you know how highly I regard you as a person, and how much respect I have for your point of view. OF COURSE I'm not seeking any "gotcha" moments at your expense...and I apologize if my post even HINTED of such a thing. Nor am I suggesting that you endanger your position by divulging information that others have confided in you. I know full-well that this "secrecy" business isn't strictly a Mountaineer phenomenon; my use of the word "track" was meant in a general sense.

Here is where I stand on this matter:

I initially suspected Oliveros of wrongdoing...and it took the personal knowledge that you have conveyed to us here to change my mind. But the betting public at large has no access to your personal knowledge of this matter...and, they can't be blamed for continuing to harbor dark suspicions about that particular race. There was bridgejumping going on, the horse finished the race with good energy...and the race-call left certain doubts in the public's mind about the authenticity of the race's outcome. These three things grouped together warrant an explanation from the track, IMO...to dispel the controversy that will surely arise if this horse happens to cruise to a victory in its next start. In special cases like these, the tracks cannot proceed with their "business-as-usual" attitude. And I am talking about ALL the tracks when I say this. Time must be taken, and an effort must be made, to explain certain things to the wagering public...lest the game's "integrity problem" continue to snowball in the future. Some cases are commonplace and can be safely ignored...while other cases are of a "special" nature, and warrant an explanation. And, IMO...this particular case is of the latter variety.

My best regards go out to you...and I assure you that the pleasure is all mine whenever we interact here.

There lays another problem, the next start. I doubt that any of the connections want to see the horse cruise home and confidently clobber a field next out. Wouldn't that add more questions and problems to the mix?