Religion II

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Where did I use the term "live"? But having said this, wasn't that dude Hammy contemplating DEATH (suicide) when he uttered those words? If so, wouldn't death = not to be? Sounds to me like poor little depressed Hammy is also contemplating what it means to LIVE, i.e. BE .

"... To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: ...

... But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveler returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?"


There's the religion industry's case in a nutshell.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

"... To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: ...

... But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveler returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?"


There's the religion industry's case in a nutshell.

So...you were wrong! When Uncle Hammy said, "To be or not to be...", he was contemplating his existence and non-existence in this world. To be in this world or not to be in this world.

So...tells us: Are you a being or a corpse?

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

When Uncle Hammy said, "To be or not to be...", he was contemplating his existence and non-existence in this world. To be in this world or not to be in this world.

Right. He was contemplating suicide.

From Act I

"O, that this too too solid flesh would melt
Thaw and resolve itself into a dew!
Or that the Everlasting had not fix'd
His canon 'gainst self-slaughter! O God! God!
How weary, stale, flat and unprofitable,
Seem to me all the uses of this world!."

From Act III

"I lack advancement."

From Act V

"there's a special
providence in the fall of a sparrow. If it be now,
'tis not to come; if it be not to come, it will be
now; if it be not now, yet it will come: the
readiness is all"

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Right. He was contemplating suicide.

From Act I

"O, that this too too solid flesh would melt
Thaw and resolve itself into a dew!
Or that the Everlasting had not fix'd
His canon 'gainst self-slaughter! O God! God!
How weary, stale, flat and unprofitable,
Seem to me all the uses of this world!."

From Act III

"I lack advancement."

From Act V

"there's a special
providence in the fall of a sparrow. If it be now,
'tis not to come; if it be not to come, it will be
now; if it be not now, yet it will come: the
readiness is all"

Yes...drink up his words; for YOU are not ready to meet your Maker and Judge.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Yes...drink up his words; ...

• As flies to wanton boys, are we to the gods; they kill us for their sport.
• What a terrible era in which idiots govern the blind.
• I would challenge you to a battle of wits, but I see you are unarmed!
• To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow, Creeps in this petty pace from day to day, To the last syllable of recorded time; And all our yesterdays have lighted fools The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle! Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player, That struts and frets his hour upon the stage, And then is heard no more. It is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.
• Hell is empty and all the devils are here.
• You speak an infinite deal of nothing.
• There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so.
• All of Creation’s a farce. Man was born as a joke.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

• As flies to wanton boys, are we to the gods; they kill us for their sport.
• What a terrible era in which idiots govern the blind.
• I would challenge you to a battle of wits, but I see you are unarmed!
• To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow, Creeps in this petty pace from day to day, To the last syllable of recorded time; And all our yesterdays have lighted fools The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle! Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player, That struts and frets his hour upon the stage, And then is heard no more. It is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.
• Hell is empty and all the devils are here.
• You speak an infinite deal of nothing.
• There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so.
• All of Creation’s a farce. Man was born as a joke.

And to show you what a pathetic joke you are, you still haven't answered a few questions:

1. Diane is and is not my mother. Is this necessarily an incoherent statement, and why?

2. A cannot be non-A at the same time and in the same sense. Or said differently, A cannot exist and not exist as A at the same time and in the same sense.. Do these two statements mean the same thing or not, and why?

3. Are you a being or a corpse?

Maybe some of your atheistic brethren on one of your favorite godless sites can give you assist with these tough questions?

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

And to show you what a pathetic joke you are, you still haven't answered a few questions:

You habitually do not answer my questions. Why should I answer yours?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

You habitually do not answer my questions. Why should I answer yours?http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/n...eply&p=2247705

"Habitually" is an outright lie. Quit projecting your dishonesty unto me.

The only recent question I haven't answered was the one about me hearing God speak to me. And for good reason -- you only want to know so that you can post some smart-ass, insulting, mocking reply. Why should I cast God's pearls before swine like you? Jesus warned his disciples against doing that very thing. So...I have good reason -- but YOU? The only reason you won't answer is because no matter how you answer you will not be able wiggle out of the dilemmas my questions pose. This is the only reason and we both know it.

P.S. The only time a corpse can come up with a good answer is during an autopsy. To keep with the Christmas spirit of generous giving, would you like to volunteer so that you could leave a generous legacy behind?

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

(To Actor)

The only recent question I haven't answered was the one about me hearing God speak to me. And for good reason -- you only want to know so that you can post some smart-ass, insulting, mocking reply.

But that's what you do to me when I tell you I communicate with God and that Jesus is my friend and teacher in real time.

You think you have the right to be a hypocrite because you think you are a "chosen one" and can do no wrong. If you were a "chosen one" you would be so grateful you would treat your fellow man with respect.

This is also why you take no responsibility for what you say and contradict yourself. Because you serve your ego not God.

This is also why its down to just two people on this thread and deteriorating into an insult contest between the two of you. A natural outcome when ego decides what is right and wrong, and inner truth is absent.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

To keep with the Christmas spirit of generous giving, would you like to volunteer so that you could leave a generous legacy behind?

My legacy: American Atheists, the Freedom From Religion Foundation, and the American Civil Liberties Union all will get a generous cut. And to balance things out my wife will leave an equal amount to the Roman Catholic Church.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

"Habitually" is an outright lie.

I apologize. Would you find the word "repeatedly" more acceptable. It's more precise and I can support it.

Originally Posted by boxcar

The only recent question I haven't answered was the one about me hearing God speak to me.

Actually the most recent was my request for the post# where you first "proved" those statements about finite and infinite universes. At this point I know it was not in the first 20 pages of Religion I.

Originally Posted by boxcar

And for good reason -- you only want to know so that you can post some smart-ass, insulting, mocking reply.

Not necessarily. I actually did not expect you to answer in the affirmative. If you had then I would feel bound to point out that is a symptom of schizophrenia. That would be an expression of concern for your mental health rather than "some smart-ass, insulting, mocking reply".

William Jennings Bryan made the same statement, that God spoke to him. I do not think Bryan mean it literally.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Why should I cast God's pearls before swine like you? Jesus warned his disciples against doing that very thing. So...I have good reason -- but YOU?

Did he not also say be prepared always to give answer?

Originally Posted by boxcar

The only reason you won't answer is because no matter how you answer you will not be able wiggle out of the dilemmas my questions pose.

And you have not answered my question "Do you believe in schizophrenia?" Ditto my question about what you think is the function of the brain? (Particularly Phineas Gage's brain and his "bad hair day") And you avoid answering these questions because "you will not be able wiggle out of the dilemmas my questions pose".

Exactly what dilemmas do your questions pose?

One of the links you posted points out that the study of logic did not end with Aristotle but has continued to the present day. There are the works of Arabic scholars. Since the Renaissance the works of George Boole and Blaise Pascal stand out. The standard text on logic seems to be A Mathematical Introduction to Logic by Enderton. This was my college text on logic but I no longer have it. If you really want discuss logic then I will order some books on the subject. I particularly want to get Enderton's book but it's expensive and Amazon says they can't get it until February. It will take a month to read them (at least) so I won't be prepared for the discussion until March. Let me know if you want to do that because I don't want to spend the money on the books and then have you opt out.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by Light

This is also why its down to just two people on this thread and deteriorating into an insult contest between the two of you.

My word for it was "quarrel" and I specifically stated that I wanted to avoid that, but it's hard.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Did he not also say be prepared always to give answer?

If by "he" you meant Jesus then, no, he didn't say that.

And you have not answered my question "Do you believe in schizophrenia?" Ditto my question about what you think is the function of the brain? (Particularly Phineas Gage's brain and his "bad hair day") And you avoid answering these questions because "you will not be able wiggle out of the dilemmas my questions pose".

There are no dilemmas to your foolish questions. Of course, a person can be mentally sick. So what is your point? All mental, psychological and physical sickness share one common cause: Sin.

Exactly what dilemmas do your questions pose?

The kind you can't wiggle out of which is why you're not answering.

One of the links you posted points out that the study of logic did not end with Aristotle but has continued to the present day. There are the works of Arabic scholars. Since the Renaissance the works of George Boole and Blaise Pascal stand out. The standard text on logic seems to be A Mathematical Introduction to Logic by Enderton. This was my college text on logic but I no longer have it. If you really want discuss logic then I will order some books on the subject. I particularly want to get Enderton's book but it's expensive and Amazon says they can't get it until February. It will take a month to read them (at least) so I won't be prepared for the discussion until March. Let me know if you want to do that because I don't want to spend the money on the books and then have you opt out.

Quit flattering yourself. You're offering to go more deeply into a discussion on logic with me when you can't get past the Law of Noncontradiction or the three questions I posed to you? Seriously?

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

If by "he" you meant Jesus then, no, he didn't say that.

1 Peter 3:15

Originally Posted by boxcar

Of course, a person can be mentally sick. So what is your point?

My point is that this leads to another question. Is a person who is "mentally sick" answerable for his actions? For example, if John really believes that Zack is an alien from outer space who wants to eat his brain should John answer for killing Zack?

Originally Posted by boxcar

All mental, psychological and physical sickness share one common cause: Sin.

So should we just pray for a sick child and not take him to a doctor?

Originally Posted by boxcar

You're offering to go more deeply into a discussion on logic with me ... Seriously?

Seriously! See you in March.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

1 Peter 3:15

Newsflash: Peter isn't Jesus.

My point is that this leads to another question. Is a person who is "mentally sick" answerable for his actions? For example, if John really believes that Zack is an alien from outer space who wants to eat his brain should John answer for killing Zack?

Depends. No cases are alike.

So should we just pray for a sick child and not take him to a doctor?

Why would you ask such a foolish question?

Seriously! See you in March.

That sounds like a plan. Maybe by then you can become more certain as to whether you're a being or not.