Tariffs have consequences. Usually unintended

[TJDave]

How would you explain Germany?

[bpiets]

Originally Posted by Clocker

Many of the tariffed products coming here from China are produced there for foreign companies, including American firms. As a result of Trump's tariffs, many of those firms are considering relocating to other countries, or have already done so. They certainly aren't looking at the US. Two of the big winners in the tariff wars appear to be Vietnam and Mexico.


https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...o-great-226876


https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...de-war-1023849

......here are a few problems with giving nations who use cheaper labour to get the work...lets take China....if a company goes there to manufacture they must give the company (s ) there the building blocks to produce the , ( in many instances , hi tech etc ) items to be sold in the west , etc , which the Chinese gov. can take for free intellectual gains, they can then improve on them..,( yup, in secret , etc ) and even find ways to make cheaper / counterfeit products to send to our shores ....which they do...all a perfect way for the ' workers ' to kiss thier admins butts for gains all around..., then there is us paying for being in thier back pocket , under some former American gov's to the tune of a couple of GNP to the tune of a couple of years and more ...at the expense of the American population should China call in our Markers...lol...do your home work folks.....gee, once American products were no one...with European products....now an average earning person cannot but under ware , shoes , etc etc without the threads etc coming apart after one washing or falling apart to cost the time and effort to trade bought items in and then there's all the other problems related to same...:r ip:

[bpiets]

Originally Posted by TJDave

How would you explain Germany?

....the Spirits of Wisdom,Understanding ,Knowledge , with Prudence also came and were Created by God...etc etc ....but the ruler of this world which has nothing in Jesus Christ is why we step on satans head and it try's to get our direction to change to its abominations etc...( ie: to sin...cause harm etc and worse to our selves and all others...etc etc. )

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by TJDave

How would you explain Germany?

They are doing much better without the wall.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by TJDave

How would you explain Germany?

In regards to what... Their surplus?

[fast4522]

Originally Posted by Clocker

They are doing much better without the wall.

Your correct, and the loud sucking sound will be heard all over the world when we pull troops out of Germany. We just do not need to be there, plus the price tag for that is huge.

[Burls]

DJIA January 26 2018 - 26,616

DJIA May 31 2019 - 24,815

Down 5.2% in 70 weeks

#Winning ... NOT!!

Remember to thank Donnie the Tariff Meister on your way out.

[TJDave]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

In regards to what... Their surplus?

Manufacturing base

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

If a guy in Korea can make a better cheaper car why the hell can't I buy it? Because big brother says I need to buy American...?

Is there a valid reason to account for the fact that the foreign cars are better than our domestic ones?

[reckless]

Originally Posted by Clocker

And since that ain't gonna happen, we will continue to have tariffs, and American consumers will pay the price.

And we will continue to have trade deficits, which Trump in his economic ignorance sees as "the sky is falling".

As I have been reminding everyone all along, your American consumers will pay the price rant has not been too ... let's be nice and just say ... not correct.

Prices for goods fell in the U.S. in April, defying predictions that tariffs on Chinese imports and metals would squeeze the bank accounts of U.S. households.

Compared with a year earlier, prices of goods were 0.5 percent lower, according to the government’s personal consumption price index. This was the fifth consecutive month of year-over-year deflation.

Prices of durable goods, which are thought to be those most likely to be affected by metals tariffs, are down even more. On a 12-month basis, these are down 1.8 percent. They have been down on an annual basis every month since at least September.

On a one-month basis, durable goods prices fell 0.4 percent, the third consecutive monthly decline.

https://www.breitbart.com/economy/20...u-s-consumers/

[reckless]

Originally Posted by Clocker

Proving that like your little orange hero, you also don't understand economics in general and trade in particular.

Trade is one side of our national balance sheet. The other side is capital. When we have a trade deficit, we have a capital surplus. That means that more foreign entities are investing in this country than we are investing in other countries. A capital surplus creates jobs. In our high tech economy, it generally does not create a lot of manufacturing jobs, which is what Trump and his ilk focus on.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB116667027467856406

First off, I earn my living investing and understanding markets and the economy. In another PA-OT room, I have made market calls and touted individual stocks countless times these past 15+ years. Have you ever made such thoughts known publicly?

Since you've been so totally wrong about the tariffs, Trump, manufacturing jobs created and factories coming back to the USA--not happening, you said-- since jump street, if I were you, I'd do some serious studying-up.

Here's another thing you've been consistently wrong about, just like your 2+ years rant on consumers will pay the price ... :

A 25 percent tariff on all imported goods from China would create more than 720,000 American jobs by 2024, a new study finds.

The United States would undergo a nationwide re-shoring jobs effort if it imposed a tariff on all Chinese imports, the latest study from Coalition for a Prosperous America (CPA) researchers Jeff Ferry and Steven Byers finds.

Ferry and Byers’ study reveals that an across-the-board 25 percent tariff on every good imported to the U.S. from China would “deliver a significant, sustained boost to the US economy” by creating 721,000 American jobs and adding $125 billion to the nation’s GDP by 2024.

“Our model demonstrates that across-the-board US tariffs on Chinese imports stimulate the US economy, increase US production and jobs, and lead to a reduction in US import costs over time,” Ferry said.

“This result is consistent with US experience in 2018 and early 2019 when tariffs on steel, aluminum, and other industries led to job creation in those sectors,” Ferry said. “The modeling results provide additional evidence that decoupling the US economy from China and its predatory trade and subsidy practices will make the US economy stronger, with more production, investment, and jobs.”

If a 25 percent tariff were imposed on all Chinese imports, researchers found that about $3.23 billion of production would leave China in 2020, and by 2024 nearly $300 billion in production will have left China.

Actually, the article gets even better later on.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...american-jobs/

[lamboguy]

right now there has been to much rain in the midwest for farmers to plant their corn and soybeans. this may lead to inflation that the federal reserve so desperately desires. if this happens the way i see it, Trump will look like a genius. you are going to see plenty of production and production jobs coming back to this country whether there are tariffs or not. it may be pretty tough to beat Trump in 2020 should he be on the ticket.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

That is because countries like China and India are trying to move out of the manufacturing game and into a economy similar to ours.

Note the mass exportation of manufacturing both economies are shipping off to Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Indonesia, etc.

People don't want to work on looms forever...

The economy you all sound like what you want was found in places like the Soviet Union where the state insures domestic production via economic controls.

If a guy in Korea can make a better cheaper car why the hell can't I buy it? Because big brother says I need to buy American...?

China has enough cheap labor to find people willing to work manufacturing jobs for the next few decades. To the extent they are moving jobs it's because they are trying to avoid the new tariffs and because they are willing to screw their own workers by using people that are even more desperate than the Chinese.

Instead of wealth transferring from the US companies and workers to Chinese companies and workers, it will transfer from US companies and workers to Chinese companies using Vietnamese workers.

Get it?

IMO, you should have every right to buy a Korean car as long as the trade deal that allows it is balanced and fair enough so that both countries gain.

If it's not, we are trading market share, profits jobs, jobs, and wealth for depreciating cars.

If you think that's a good deal for the US in aggregate I think you are obviously wrong.

It's a good deal for the guy whose job hasn't been shipped out YET because he can still afford to buy that cheaper Korean car he likes and it's a great deal for Korea and Korean workers because they are getting wealthier.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by reckless

Since you've been so totally wrong about the tariffs, Trump, manufacturing jobs created and factories coming back to the USA--not happening, you said-- since jump street, if I were you, I'd do some serious studying-up.

Here's another thing you've been consistently wrong about, just like your 2+ years rant on consumers will pay the price ...

As I have shown here before, most of the jobs being lost in China are going to places with even cheaper labor, like Vietnam. To the extent that tariffs increase jobs here, it is at a big cost to consumers.

Three economists at the University of Chicago and the Federal Reserve Board studied the effects of Trump’s 2018 tariffs on imported washing machines in a new research paper titled “The Production, Relocation, and Price Effects of US Trade Policy: The Case of Washing Machines” and concluded that (italics added):

Despite the increase in domestic production and employment, the costs of these 2018 tariffs are substantial: in a partial equilibrium setting, we estimate increased annual consumer costs of around $1.5 billion, or roughly $820,000 per job created.

http://www.aei.org/publication/trump...of-820000-job/

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by TJDave

Manufacturing base

I think its a combination of a lot of factors.

From the education system to reunification to their own internal demographics and savings rate.

Their manufacturing base is beginning to give them problems though with declining populations, lack of innovation in other sectors, and the opening up of lots of eastern Europe.