Did Restoring Hope help Justify tactically in the Belmont...?

[Andy Asaro]

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[Tom]

1. Baffert entered Restoring Hope because he thought that colt could win the Belmont

I would guess the Owner wanted him to be entered.

[theiman]

Originally Posted by sammy the sage

Been done before....not only Baffert either...

https://blog.horsetourneys.com/2016/...n-stakes-race/

Everyone needs to take a view of the "Head On" Replay of the Arrogate Travers in 2016 to get a much better perspective of the herding that #2 American Freedom does to about 5 horses. Surprised there wasnt an inquiry. or an objection from that.

American Freedom has the same owner as Restoring Hope. Now American Freedom was very good in that race as opposed to Restoring Hopes effort after one mile of the race.

[Tom]

Losing Owner Calls For Investigation Into Tactics Used At Belmont

Nothing like a good whine after losing a Belmont.
The local boys got learned.
you want an investigation, fine - look at the every day shit that the NYRA riders pull. Let's not pretend theses boys are choir boys.

Uncoupled entries as the stupidest mistake the game ever made.
But they made it, now klive with it.

You know what the REALLY bad optics of all this are?

All this mindless whining while people are still reading about the TC. Just goes to confirm what most people believed - racing is fixed.

WE have a lot of sunshine in NY this week - time for some local to use to grow a set.

Man up and move on.
Next year, show up with a REAL race horse, one that can do better than......LAST PLACE, you dipstick!

There is nothing to "Justify."

[TiffaniO]

Originally Posted by Track Phantom

Can anyone confirm, or say with a straight face that:

1. Baffert entered Restoring Hope because he thought that colt could win the Belmont
2. Baffert did EVERYTHING in his power to give Restoring Hope the best chance to win the Belmont
3. Baffert did not instruct rider Geroux to do anything, be it overtly or subtly, that would compromise the chances of Restoring Hope to the benefit of Justify?

My opinion is very simple.... Baffert told Geroux to get out of the gate with Restoring Hope and sit on the flank of Justify, thereby forcing anyone else that wanted to pressure Justify to travel at least three wide. I also think Baffert told Geroux to not press Justify or go to the lead in front of Justify. This is the reason why Geroux floated very wide was to take the early sting out of Restoring Hope and not get in the way of Justify early.

All of this leads to one serious theme....too many good horses are in the hands of too few trainers (and owners). When horses are entered in a race without serious intent to win but to change the race dynamics (i.e. rabbit) or create early chaos (i.e. blocker), we have a major problem and it becomes a slippery slope. This problem doesn't exist if all 10 horses in the Belmont were trained by 10 different trainers.

I don't recall the name of the horse but didn't a Chad Brown runner on the turf, a rabbit of sorts, shift way out from the rail in a G1 to allow the favorite to roll up the inside? Two different betting interests but clearly a "team" approach. If connections are willing to "cheat" (for lack of a better term) in full view of the public, what are they willing to do out of view from the public?

Welcome to 21st century horse racing.

The only way to solve the problems above is to:

Allow only one entry per owner or trainer per race. This would keep teamwork out of a race and force owners to move horses to other trainers. The guys with all the stakes horses wouldn’t be able to keep their owners happy if this was the case. Thus horses would be dispersed more evenly.

[FenceBored]

Originally Posted by TiffaniO

The only way to solve the problems above is to:

Allow only one entry per owner or trainer per race. This would keep teamwork out of a race and force owners to move horses to other trainers. The guys with all the stakes horses wouldn’t be able to keep their owners happy if this was the case. Thus horses would be dispersed more evenly.

It would not keep teamwork out of a race, especially one as important as the Belmont. You would still see jockeys combining to box the favorite in (see Big Brown) or force a speed duel to take him out of his game plan (see Smarty Jones) without their horses sharing owner or trainer.

[TiffaniO]

Originally Posted by FenceBored

It would not keep teamwork out of a race, especially one as important as the Belmont. You would still see jockeys combining to box the favorite in (see Big Brown) or force a speed duel to take him out of his game plan (see Smarty Jones) without their horses sharing owner or trainer.

Well what you list is normal race riding. What FloGo did (basically doing everything but jump off the horse to not make the lead) was not that. They would be trying to beat the horse at least instead of teaming up for a certain horse to win.

[FenceBored]

Originally Posted by TiffaniO

Well what you list is normal race riding. What FloGo did (basically doing everything but jump off the horse to not make the lead) was not that. They would be trying to beat the horse at least instead of teaming up for a certain horse to win.

Neither Rock Hard Ten nor Purge finished on the board after their speed duel "troubling the early rhythms" of Smarty Jones (to use Jay Hovdey's phrase). They nuked their own chances solely to make sure that the favorite didn't win.

[TiffaniO]

Originally Posted by FenceBored

Neither Rock Hard Ten nor Purge finished on the board after their speed duel "troubling the early rhythms" of Smarty Jones (to use Jay Hovdey's phrase). They nuked their own chances solely to make sure that the favorite didn't win.

I actually know that... but being in a speed duel is different than steering a horse that is going to the lead over a stablemate to the 8 or 9 path.

Making a horse earn something is different than gift wrapping it...

I like Justify, I just think FloGo needs to be suspended and fined heavily.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Tom

Repole sounds like sour grapes to me.
But I do agree with him - Javier pretty much sucks.
I will not wage a dime on that dipstick ever again.

btw, when the stewards closely examine the film for this race, maybe they could take a closer look how their local boys ride day in day out.

Maybe NY just doesn't like it when outsiders play THEIR game better than they do.

Amen brutha....Amen.

Funny how this only gets play in Triple Crown races...

It's also kind of funny that some people actually BELIEVE Justify needed help outside of his natural speed and talent? He needed BLOCKERS?

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

At the 1:50 minute mark in the drone overhead video replay, it sounds like a jockey is calling out something like “Is he” but it is difficult to understand...was wondering if anybody could recognize the voice or what was said and why...?

https://www.nbcsports.com/video/2018...s-triple-crown

Is this kind of like when Durkin blurted out "DEPUTY" near the end of his call of the 2010 Belmont Stakes?

No, it's probably not...but I thought it was funny.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Denny

If there were a college class on race fixing - a Race Fixing 101.

Viewing this Belmont Stakes would be a course requirement.

How many different ways Baffert can do it and get away with it?

This would be an essay question on the Final to RF101.

LULZ

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

So do I have this straight:

Some people are upset that an uncoupled entry from the same barn had a horse ridden aggressively to make sure that another horse from an uncoupled entry could not work in tandem with their stablemate to try and make sure that the best horse didn’t get a fair shake in the race?

Ok, only In horse racing. This sport man.

Yeah, I was gonna post something like this, but you beat me to it.

Repole is complaining he couldn't set up the race like he wanted with HIS UNCOUPLED ENTRY because Baffert was already busy setting up the race like he wanted with HIS OWN UE??

Hilarious stuff.

People like to get all worked up and I guess this is as good a topic as any for the time being.

[metro]

Originally Posted by Track Phantom

My opinion is very simple.... Baffert told Geroux to get out of the gate with Restoring Hope and sit on the flank of Justify, thereby forcing anyone else that wanted to pressure Justify to travel at least three wide. I also think Baffert told Geroux to not press Justify or go to the lead in front of Justify. This is the reason why Geroux floated very wide was to take the early sting out of Restoring Hope and not get in the way of Justify early.

Seems those would be the same instructions Baffert would have given Geroux for Restoring Hope's best chance of winning or hitting the board in the race.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Not sure I understand Jay Hovdey’s Iceberg Metaphor here...

Quote: “As much as today’s trainers and jockeys seem to enjoy the spotlight, enhancing their brands, they still operate primarily behind the scenes, and more is left unsaid in lieu of quiet understandings and business relationships. Icebergs reveal more above the waterline.”

Taken from his recent article:https://t.co/EUXcH06Nf1

Anyone care to paraphrase this with a little more clarity...?

It does bring up an interesting point however about trainers, jockeys, and owners being human beings after all.

The potential for conflicts of interest are rife in these relationships...suppose a rider does a favor for a trainer in riding a competitors’ horse in a not so deliberately winning fashion...might that rider be rewarded by getting a good mount by said trainer down the road?

Especially if that jockey is normally on said trainers go-to list already...you know the old “quid pro quo” you scratch my back today, I’ll scratch yours tomorrow, and nobody will know any better for it, right?

What happens when a regular Rider rides another Trainer’s horse in a race where this Trainer has horse entered that This Trainer is high on, for example...? Can said jockey keep from showing the slightest bit of favoritism toward his regular boss in keeping the interest of his other boss straight...? I see these complex racing relationships to be intensely problematic...humans being what they are...