RIP Turf Paradise

[castaway01]

I should clarify from my earlier post that I'm aware consolidation will continue. If a business fails or the land it is on is worth more than it is generating, it's going to go away. But consolidation won't fix anything because it hasn't thus far---we've been "consolidating" for 30 years now.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by AndyC

How do you go about recruiting new players to the game? Personally I would have never started betting horses if I hadn't attended live races long before I started betting. Do most sports bettors start betting football, baseball, basketball, etc. without first having become interested in the sport before betting?



The minor league tracks used to serve a purpose as an introduction to the sport. I doubt TV will pique the interests of those unable to experience live racing.

I haven't seen any indication that the horse racing industry is interested in recruiting new players to this game. If the industry isn't unduly troubled by the obvious fact that they can't even maintain their current fan base...what makes you think that recruiting new players is one of their priorities going forward? To me, it seems that the industry is only interested in expanding its "extracurricular" gambling enterprise...while also appeasing the gambling appetites of those mega-betting "Whales".

The funny thing is that, before the emergence of the Whales as a major wagering force...the horse racing industry wouldn't even acknowledge being in the "gambling business". They considered themselves part of the "entertainment business" instead.

[MJC922]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I haven't seen any indication that the horse racing industry is interested in recruiting new players to this game. If the industry isn't unduly troubled by the obvious fact that they can't even maintain their current fan base...what makes you think that recruiting new players is one of their priorities going forward? To me, it seems that the industry is only interested in expanding its "extracurricular" gambling enterprise...while also appeasing the gambling appetites of those mega-betting "Whales".

The funny thing is that, before the emergence of the Whales as a major wagering force...the horse racing industry wouldn't even acknowledge being in the "gambling business". They considered themselves part of the "entertainment business" instead.

IMO it's ripe for disruption on the wagering-side. I'm not sure if anyone is up to the task for trying some new and innovative things though, maybe Fanduel with Fairmount fits the bill. The thing is if you try some things with a rinky dink track and start grabbing a lot of the handle then the rest of the industry will have to adapt and follow suit.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

It's going to have to be things like the Triple Crown, Breeder's Cup and other series like that on TV or as I've been saying vacation destination tracks. IMHO, the ideal would be for most of the remaining tracks to be located somewhere I might logically go on vacation anyway. The racetrack can be one of the hot things to do in that area at that time because of the quality of the racing and big race days. Casuals still show up and bet on the bigger days. But I am talking about a much smaller but hopefully healthier industry. Maybe it won't work, but the economics are a horror show now and getting worse now.

I've been saying what thaskalos is saying for a long time.

No one needs 19+ tracks running at the same time in an era of simulcasting.

This isn't just about horses. What about trainers, jockeys, grooms, exercise riders, etc.? There will no place to get training. Everybody will start in the big leagues. A healthier industry would not have a diminishing pool of qualified workers.

[MonmouthParkJoe]

Regardless of how anyone feels about Turf and the general happenings in Arizona, them closing will have a ripple effect across many tracks in the Midwest, Northwest and California.

Mid to lower tier track closures like this will have a bigger impact on breeding than most would think.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by PhantomOnTour

Amazingly, Australia has nearly 400 tracks

Mostly grass racing, and shorter meets and race weeks, right?

Those conditions lend themselves to more tracks. If you could only run 16 races a week and 6 months a year over a dirt track, by necessity there'd be a lot more operating racetracks in America too.

[vikingrob]

From what I read the AQU real estate is worth upwards of $1B - part of it is access to the subway line and proximity to JFK.

[burnsy]

Originally Posted by castaway01

I should clarify from my earlier post that I'm aware consolidation will continue. If a business fails or the land it is on is worth more than it is generating, it's going to go away. But consolidation won't fix anything because it hasn't thus far---we've been "consolidating" for 30 years now.

No they haven’t . That’s the pipe dream that people sell but there’s too many races at too many tracks . People love free enterprise and free markets until their particular “entity “ is the gazelle in the lions jaws. That’s how it works , the weak are weeded out of the picture naturally. That’s what’s going on . Somehow the industry “sells “ the half dozen or so huge days they have . Point at them and try to believe everything is fine . This game needs to actually tone down and become leaner and meaner .

That being said I think NYRA pulled a coup getting this upgrade for Belmont . Face it , the strongest links will become the center of horse racing and NY just made an attempt to be front and center upon completion of the”new” park. They practically pulled off the impossible because most state’s probably would have given a big FU for this project. I haven’t understood the viability of these smaller tracks for years . Who the hell is betting them ? Who is going to them besides for the simulcast ? Do people really think this could go on forever? Both sides in here like to go out on extremes and bitch . I believe horse racing can survive and even thrive if they actually did some consolidation. At this point it’s so late it will be forced on this game . But one thing for sure , by doing what NYRA is doing they will still be around for a long time . These states with the screwed up betting and rules …… basically neons behind the times . What do people expect ? There’s Casinos and my Draft Kings stock almost doubled this year . There’s no possible way a state like that can compete. People are nuts making fun of NYRA they’ve actually have a shot at this point . No, I don’t work for them . It’s just common , economic sense. This crap about the real estate and all the other arguments . Who cares ? Focus on the best facilities and best product or your track will be next . That’s reality ! You can argue and bitch all you want …….. the weak and sick always go first !

[AskinHaskin]

Originally Posted by the little guy

Your ridiculous posting is impressive.

Originally Posted by the little guy

... BS you post here. Imagine if you had to be personally accountable. You have trouble getting ANYTHING right.

You can't even get the basics correct. The financials of running two racetracks less than ten miles apart don't make sense. This shouldn't be too hard to figure out...even for you. We all love Aqueduct, but it doesn't make sense. What does make sense is building a new Belmont, as the current one doesn't work.

OK, talk about ridiculous posting:


(or somebody towing the company line in the face of common sense)


"Shouldn't be too hard to figure out" ???


LOL - for how long has the same company been running "two racetracks less than ten miles apart"??

And yet it has taken that long for them and their minions to figure out that "the financials"... "don't make sense" ??


"We all" definitely do not "love Aqueduct".

Its dying slogan should still read:


"The Breeders' Cup was held here... (once)"


And how is it that "Belmont" "doesn't work" ???


It appears to have been working fine ever since they last ran the Belmont Stakes at Aqueduct, and probably long before.



Chief among those things which "shouldn't be too hard to figure out" remains the harsh reality that each time you open the doors for a live race day, you further erode horse racing. That by drawing still more innocent, (could-have-once-been future regulars) into the quasi shell game which you are presently operating or tacitly approving/endorsing by your doing nothing other than towing the company line.

It will be only at the point which you and yours first consent to actively do something for your on-site customers that you will cease to steadily erode what once was a grand sport. In the present you simply can't become any part of the solution until you first cease to be the problem.

It "shouldn't be too hard to figure out" that the public at large wants no part of your shell game. They in greatest numbers take one look, watch it happen, and show enough common sense to avoid it for their entire future. Much as would anybody walking past a shell game in Times Square.

You caused all of this yourselves - much as was the case in Arlington Heights, Boston, Miami Gardens, San Mateo, and soon to occur in Albany and in Phoenix.

Once again, you can not be any part of the solution until you cease to be (or represent, in your case) most of the problem.

That, also, "shouldn't be too hard to figure out".


Anything about "two racetracks less than ten miles apart" that "doesn't work" in the 2023 present, yet which sure seemed to work fine for decades before is entirely a function of the poor customer-facing aspect of the company whose narrative you continue to spew (without so much as bothering to take the two seconds perhaps needed for most "to figure out").


So c'mon, "it shouldn't be too hard (for you) to figure out"

[ReplayRandall]

....

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by AskinHaskin

OK, talk about ridiculous posting:


(or somebody towing the company line in the face of common sense)


"Shouldn't be too hard to figure out" ???


LOL - for how long has the same company been running "two racetracks less than ten miles apart"??

And yet it has taken that long for them and their minions to figure out that "the financials"... "don't make sense" ??


"We all" definitely do not "love Aqueduct".

Its dying slogan should still read:


"The Breeders' Cup was held here... (once)"


And how is it that "Belmont" "doesn't work" ???


It appears to have been working fine ever since they last ran the Belmont Stakes at Aqueduct, and probably long before.



Chief among those things which "shouldn't be too hard to figure out" remains the harsh reality that each time you open the doors for a live race day, you further erode horse racing. That by drawing still more innocent, (could-have-once-been future regulars) into the quasi shell game which you are presently operating or tacitly approving/endorsing by your doing nothing other than towing the company line.

It will be only at the point which you and yours first consent to actively do something for your on-site customers that you will cease to steadily erode what once was a grand sport. In the present you simply can't become any part of the solution until you first cease to be the problem.

It "shouldn't be too hard to figure out" that the public at large wants no part of your shell game. They in greatest numbers take one look, watch it happen, and show enough common sense to avoid it for their entire future. Much as would anybody walking past a shell game in Times Square.

You caused all of this yourselves - much as was the case in Arlington Heights, Boston, Miami Gardens, San Mateo, and soon to occur in Albany and in Phoenix.

Once again, you can not be any part of the solution until you cease to be (or represent, in your case) most of the problem.

That, also, "shouldn't be too hard to figure out".


Anything about "two racetracks less than ten miles apart" that "doesn't work" in the 2023 present, yet which sure seemed to work fine for decades before is entirely a function of the poor customer-facing aspect of the company whose narrative you continue to spew (without so much as bothering to take the two seconds perhaps needed for most "to figure out").


So c'mon, "it shouldn't be too hard (for you) to figure out"

YouTube

[Andy Asaro]

Turf Paradise may have been a decent place many years ago. In recent years it became an embarrassment to the Industry. Someone could have bought it and kept racing but nobody wanted it. Good riddance IMO.

It may be sentimentally sad when a track closes but why should anyone expect a business to stay in business while it loses money or just breaks even?


My guess is that First Racing aka The Stronach Group will finalize purchase of Arizona downs and race there next year as they close Golden Gate. However if they don't put the proper resources into it they shouldn't bother.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by AndyC

This isn't just about horses. What about trainers, jockeys, grooms, exercise riders, etc.? There will no place to get training. Everybody will start in the big leagues. A healthier industry would not have a diminishing pool of qualified workers.

I was talking about financially healthier.

I'm well aware of the pain a lot of people suffer in a consolidation both while it's happening and in the availability of jobs and training going forward. IMO it's an inevitable part of an industry either overbuilding and then having to right size or becoming less popular and shrinking. Racing is now competing with other forms of gambling that the public prefers. It's losing market share. It has to shrink. Unless you can think of a magic bullet that makes gambling on horses more attractive to a broad range of people and still generates enough cash to operate all these tracks and pay attractive purses I think this is all inevitable.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I was talking about financially healthier.

I'm well aware of the pain a lot of people suffer in a consolidation both while it's happening and in the availability of jobs and training going forward. IMO it's an inevitable part of an industry either overbuilding and then having to right size or becoming less popular and shrinking. Racing is now competing with other forms of gambling that the public prefers. It's losing market share. It has to shrink. Unless you can think of a magic bullet that makes gambling on horses more attractive to a broad range of people and still generates enough cash to operate all these tracks and pay attractive purses I think this is all inevitable.

There is no level of consolidation that will make racing flourish.

[JohnGalt1]

Why breed in Arizona?

They announced breeding is way down in Minnesota.

How's the breeding in Illinois doing with Arlington gone?

Those of us who want contraction of tracks will probably get contraction of breeding.