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12-07-2013, 10:26 PM
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#31
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,662
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Mandela was considered a terrorist by the US Gov't until 2008, he was a Marxist sympathizer if not outright believer....and a mere five years later after being removed from the terrorist watch list, if someone has a problem with lowering the flag for him, there's gotta only be one reason....
It's cause his skin is dark...
You gotta be shittin' me. You left-leaners just LOVE that race card...
Keep pulling it out of your pocket...it used to piss me off, but now it just makes me laugh...
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12-08-2013, 10:39 AM
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#32
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,662
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And by the way, if anyone is under the impression that *I* think Mandela was a terrorist because of my recent factual posts on this subject, well then, those people are dumber than even I could imagine.
Just needed to clarify that, as many things get misinterpreted here by those of different ideological beliefs. We all have our blinders on and read only what we want to read. So sadly, I must clarify what I write even though what I wrote had nothing to do with my opinion.
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12-08-2013, 02:23 PM
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#33
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,893
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
Mandela was considered a terrorist by the US Gov't until 2008, he was a Marxist sympathizer if not outright believer....and a mere five years later after being removed from the terrorist watch list, if someone has a problem with lowering the flag for him, there's gotta only be one reason....
It's cause his skin is dark...
You gotta be shittin' me. You left-leaners just LOVE that race card...
Keep pulling it out of your pocket...it used to piss me off, but now it just makes me laugh...
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His politics changed/softened over time, only fair to mention that.
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12-08-2013, 02:39 PM
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#34
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,662
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike
His politics changed/softened over time, only fair to mention that.
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Yes, of course. Like I said, just because I am posting facts doesn't mean that I agree that the man should be looked upon as a terrorist today. However, it is well known that his ideology leaned Marxist, if not heavily so. And he did engage or endorse tactics that marked him as a terrorist at one time by the US Gov't.
He was also a brave, courageous man who stood up for his beliefs and led South Africa out of the disgrace that was apartheid. I don't think anyone can or will dispute that.
Last edited by PaceAdvantage; 12-08-2013 at 02:40 PM.
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12-08-2013, 02:42 PM
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#35
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,893
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
Yes, of course. Like I said, just because I am posting facts doesn't mean that I agree that the man should be looked upon as a terrorist today. However, it is well known that his ideology leaned Marxist, if not heavily so. And he did engage or endorse tactics that marked him as a terrorist at one time by the US Gov't.
He was also a brave, courageous man who stood up for his beliefs and led South Africa out of the disgrace that was apartheid. I don't think anyone can or will dispute that.
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All good points - perhaps Mr. Goren will learn from your posts on this matter.
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12-09-2013, 03:51 PM
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#36
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Anaheim,California
Posts: 4,675
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If I desired to do so, I could fill an entire page with links documenting Mandela's Communist Party membership, his connection with communists, his terrorist activities, his lavish praise of dictators and communist leaders around the globe, his blatant anti-Americanism, and the opposition to his policies and the ANC among several other black organizations in South Africa.
__________________
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
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12-09-2013, 03:58 PM
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#37
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Racing Form Detective
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lincoln, Ne but my heart is at Santa Anita
Posts: 16,316
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BlueShoe
If I desired to do so, I could fill an entire page with links documenting Mandela's Communist Party membership, his connection with communists, his terrorist activities, his lavish praise of dictators and communist leaders around the globe, his blatant anti-Americanism, and the opposition to his policies and the ANC among several other black organizations in South Africa.
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So you think the apartheid government was a better alternative than Mandela? Remember there are only two choices here.
__________________
Some day in the not too distant future, horse players will betting on computer generated races over the net. Race tracks will become casinos and shopping centers. And some crooner will be belting out "there used to be a race track here".
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12-09-2013, 04:17 PM
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#38
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,893
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robert Goren
So you think the apartheid government was a better alternative than Mandela? Remember there are only two choices here.
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Please re-read his post. This time, don't imagine things that don't exist.
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12-09-2013, 05:07 PM
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#39
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Anaheim,California
Posts: 4,675
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robert Goren
So you think the apartheid government was a better alternative than Mandela? Remember there are only two choices here.
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No, at that time there was a third choice, and that was to become a client state of the Soviet Union, which would have been far worse than the other two.
As a sidenote, while apartheid was bad, if it was so intolerable, why then did South Africa, for many decades, have a serious illegal immigrant problem? Black Africans from other sub Saharan nations flocked to SA to get jobs and raise their standard of living. Do not ever recall any media outlet on the left ever mentioning this.
__________________
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
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12-09-2013, 09:34 PM
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#40
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,890
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robert Goren
So you think the apartheid government was a better alternative than Mandela? Remember there are only two choices here.
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That is one giant leap you make here.
Nothing BS said indicates this.
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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12-10-2013, 12:32 AM
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#41
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,701
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BlueShoe
If I desired to do so, I could fill an entire page with links documenting Mandela's Communist Party membership, his connection with communists, his terrorist activities, his lavish praise of dictators and communist leaders around the globe, his blatant anti-Americanism, and the opposition to his policies and the ANC among several other black organizations in South Africa.
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If I desired to do so,I could fill an entire page with links documenting the fact that the reds did indeed aid the ANC in their fight against the racist apartheid regime while the US and the rest of the west backed the racist as long as they could.His "terrorist" activities were incited by the brutal slaughter and oppression of protesters by the racist. .And if stating historical facts about the the US history of racism slavery and genocide constitutes anti-Americanism then yeah guilty as charged.I feel really sad for people whose worldview is so jingoistic and myopic that they have no ability to perceive objective reality.
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12-10-2013, 12:41 AM
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#42
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,570
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hank
If I desired to do so,I could fill an entire page with links documenting the fact that the reds did indeed aid the ANC in their fight against the racist apartheid regime while the US and the rest of the west backed the racist as long as they could.His "terrorist" activities were incited by the brutal slaughter and oppression of protesters by the racist. .And if stating historical facts about the the US history of racism slavery and genocide constitutes anti-Americanism then yeah guilty as charged.I feel really sad for people whose worldview is so jingoistic and myopic that they have no ability to perceive objective reality.
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The U.S. supporting "racist regimes"? Where do you get this sort of propaganda talk?
Don't you know that the U.S. stands for all that's fair and just...and that the U.S. government is supremely qualified to decide who is a "terrorist" and who is not?
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
Last edited by thaskalos; 12-10-2013 at 12:43 AM.
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12-10-2013, 06:49 AM
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#43
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Racing Form Detective
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lincoln, Ne but my heart is at Santa Anita
Posts: 16,316
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BlueShoe
No, at that time there was a third choice, and that was to become a client state of the Soviet Union, which would have been far worse than the other two.
As a sidenote, while apartheid was bad, if it was so intolerable, why then did South Africa, for many decades, have a serious illegal immigrant problem? Black Africans from other sub Saharan nations flocked to SA to get jobs and raise their standard of living. Do not ever recall any media outlet on the left ever mentioning this.
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You should go back and re-think this post. You have just come off as a racist of the first order by using the same argument that the apartheid government used. That is nicest thing I can say about this post. I am trying real hard not to believe that you are a scum bucket. This post makes that really hard.
__________________
Some day in the not too distant future, horse players will betting on computer generated races over the net. Race tracks will become casinos and shopping centers. And some crooner will be belting out "there used to be a race track here".
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12-10-2013, 07:35 AM
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#44
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,174
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robert Goren
You should go back and re-think this post. You have just come off as a racist of the first order by using the same argument that the apartheid government used. That is nicest thing I can say about this post. I am trying real hard not to believe that you are a scum bucket. This post makes that really hard.
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He brings up a valid point which you are unwilling to address. Apartheid in some cases was less cruel towards its black citizens than in the dictatorships of the day, such as Uganda, etc. He isn't saying that Apartheid was good, but in some cases was better than the alternative form of govt seen most often at the time. Try to remember we are talking 1970's and 80's here. The political map was vastly different then. You see black and white, but there is and was plenty of gray too.
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12-10-2013, 07:36 AM
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#45
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,890
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Quote:
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You should go back and re-think this post. You have just come off as a racist of the first order
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Is there anything in his post that is not true?
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