Driverless car kills pedestrian

[JerryBoyle]

Originally Posted by Clocker

Most likely. Which goes to show that auto-driving has yet to show that it can perform better than a human in the real world, or prove that it can provide the huge benefits claimed for it.

Are you deliberately being dense?

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by davew

Then the computer and all electronics, that does not like water, and has connections that can become loose or short.
.....

I had a PC driven CNC Mill that was doing some profiling, just think an over grown router that cuts metal instead of wood or big drill press that the table moves side to side. I hear a strange noise and look over and see the table against the mechanical limits and the stepper motor still trying to move the table with the drive belt slipping with all the cogs chewed off.

A little investigation revealed the fan in the control cabinet failed causing the main processor to overheat. The processor started spitting out movement commands that were far cry from what it should have been reading from the program coding. The disaster occurred when it told the table to move over 5,000 feet when it should of been 5 inches. I have seen shorted out connections from moisture do a lot worse than that.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by JerryBoyle

Are you deliberately being dense?

What a clever response to dodge the issues.

To repeat, I have seen no evidence that auto-driving cars are better and safer than human drivers. They are still aspiring to meet that standard. The purported huge benefits of such cars are highly questionable. As a trivial issue, how many people would opt to rent out their car when not using it? And why can't people do that now?

More seriously, unless you are proposing to make human over-ride of the auto-driving system impossible, you are not going to do much to solve the problems of bad drivers. What are the chances of that?

[JerryBoyle]

Originally Posted by Clocker

What a clever response to dodge the issues.

To repeat, I have seen no evidence that auto-driving cars are better and safer than human drivers. They are still aspiring to meet that standard. The purported huge benefits of such cars are highly questionable. As a trivial issue, how many people would opt to rent out their car when not using it? And why can't people do that now?

More seriously, unless you are proposing to make human over-ride of the auto-driving system impossible, you are not going to do much to solve the problems of bad drivers. What are the chances of that?

You took ONE accident and said "goes to show they're not ready". That is being dense. You're asking for data yet using 1 example as a reason they're not ready. Why would I entertain you. Do a quick search and you can easily find the information you're after...

You may be right about the renting part. Maybe it will turn out that people won't want to rent their cars. Does that mean the other benefits don't exist?

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by JerryBoyle

You took ONE accident and said "goes to show they're not ready". That is being dense. You're asking for data yet using 1 example as a reason they're not ready.

No, I have stated repeatedly in this thread that those claiming huge benefits have not demonstrated the existence of such, or even a good probability. My position is not derived from one accident, that accident was merely the stimulus for a wider discussion.

You claimed without proof that there will be huge benefits, and I have the burden to prove that there won't?

[Inner Dirt]

Who cares if it is only "one accident" ? I watched the video, the self driving car never attempted to stop. The problem with this "one accident" with this self driving car is the obvious fact there has been a lot of money and attention given per unit to these vehicles. From USA Today:

Even though they haven't been at fault, self-driving test cars are involved in crashes at five times the rate of conventional cars, a new study finds.

So it is pretty obvious self driving cars are not avoiding accidents that a human driver would avoid. That is fact while at the same time they are getting service, support and care they will not receive if they became common place. It also stands to reason when mass produced they will not be as well made and have lesser quality components than the handful of what amount to prototypes being used today. What happens when they are owned by the type of person who drives the brake shoes down to the rivets and then takes the car to a shop where they don't even know how to properly install tires?

[davew]

Originally Posted by Clocker

No, I have stated repeatedly in this thread that those claiming huge benefits have not demonstrated the existence of such, or even a good probability. My position is not derived from one accident, that accident was merely the stimulus for a wider discussion.

You claimed without proof that there will be huge benefits, and I have the burden to prove that there won't?

You must be too old to have been indoctrinated into the progressive cult during school.

You just have to believe that after 5-20 years of research, development and government grants that it will be great and better than anything ever.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by JerryBoyle

What does fully tested mean to you?

Obviously, more than we have now.

[JerryBoyle]

Originally Posted by Tom

Obviously, more than we have now.

Why how is that obvious? Serious question, what's an appropriate amount of testing. I'm not claiming cars are ready to be fully autonomous, but at what point would you (or other skeptics) consider them to be?

[JerryBoyle]

Originally Posted by davew

You must be too old to have been indoctrinated into the progressive cult during school.

You just have to believe that after 5-20 years of research, development and government grants that it will be great and better than anything ever.

I'm sorry your purpose in life is being displaced by technology

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by davew

You must be too old to have been indoctrinated into the progressive cult during school.

I'm also old enough to have learned in school that global warming and global cooling used to happen long before we had humans to blame it on.

[JerryBoyle]

Originally Posted by Clocker

No, I have stated repeatedly in this thread that those claiming huge benefits have not demonstrated the existence of such, or even a good probability. My position is not derived from one accident, that accident was merely the stimulus for a wider discussion.

You claimed without proof that there will be huge benefits, and I have the burden to prove that there won't?

You're really arguing that there aren't benefits to automation? Let me guess, you thought humans couldn't be beaten by a computer in chess or Go, a computer could never predict melanoma instance at an equal rate as a dermatologist, a computer couldn't handicap horse races better than a human, should I go on...

[JerryBoyle]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

Who cares if it is only "one accident" ? I watched the video, the self driving car never attempted to stop. The problem with this "one accident" with this self driving car is the obvious fact there has been a lot of money and attention given per unit to these vehicles. From USA Today:

Even though they haven't been at fault, self-driving test cars are involved in crashes at five times the rate of conventional cars, a new study finds.

So it is pretty obvious self driving cars are not avoiding accidents that a human driver would avoid. That is fact while at the same time they are getting service, support and care they will not receive if they became common place. It also stands to reason when mass produced they will not be as well made and have lesser quality components than the handful of what amount to prototypes being used today. What happens when they are owned by the type of person who drives the brake shoes down to the rivets and then takes the car to a shop where they don't even know how to properly install tires?

Nothing about this article makes any of what you said obvious

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...ents/74946614/

Nice try

[JerryBoyle]

Originally Posted by Clocker

I'm also old enough to have learned in school that global warming and global cooling used to happen long before we had humans to blame it on.

Too bad your grandchildren will live in a world that you willingly f'd up because you were too hard headed to listen to people smarter than you. Start buying property in Georgia, it'll soon be beach side!

[JerryBoyle]

Here ya go: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b03b105b44bc6b.

Let me guess, you don't buy it cuz it's not from Alex Jones or Breitbart

"If every teenage driver in Phoenix took Waymo instead, there would be as many as 12,000 fewer accidents per year."

"If all U.S. teen drivers traded car keys for the Waymo service, we could eliminate one million accidents and countless teen fatalities."