Bob Baffert

[$w1fT]

Originally Posted by Track Phantom

I know one person who would vehemently disagree with this.

Who?

[Robert Fischer]

Bob Baffert is an all-time great.

One of the Best.

PEDs in sports is another thing.

Black market makes a presence. See that shit between the lines.

Shadow economy and some are thriving. $$$$

Some of those PED relationships generate frequent sales on a consistent
basis

You aren't a top trainer in your circuit unless you use PEDs.

Baffert is NOT our scape goat ( ++ while all this is going on... ).

[Topcat]

Baffert is very very good and I've followed him since his quarter horse days in Los Alamitos and when he lived in Huntington Beach, my area. I've met him and as a former T-bred horse owner I would say Bob was always accessible on the back stretch and friendly to fans. I liked him, still do.

Sadly, IMHO, things seemed to change about the time he divorced his wife Sherry of some 20 years, the mother of four of his children. I know these things happen and there are two sides to each story but when Baffert met Jill (current wife) and started a relationship, Baffert's extended family that are Catholic and attend Mass every Sunday and still lives in the area -well they really sided with Sherry, saying basically you shouldn't cheat on your wife. Jill is 16 years younger and a TV reporter at the time openly talked about being in love with a married man which did not exactly endure him to Baffert's family. I think that estranged Baffert a bit from his family-sort of what happened to Tiger Woods when his Dad died, Dad/family was the rock that kept him tethered. With no tether, anything goes. I guess that is a little harsh but we guys, myself included, have trouble with impulse control .

IMHO It was about that time that Baffert went more Hollywood (stunts like allowing Burger King to pay him to have their mascot right behind him in the winners circle etc) despite not having a connection to the horse.

Maybe it was coincidence but for whatever reason it was about this time that Baffert got into Super Feed/PEDs. IMHO, he was good enough that he didn't have to.

Rob Henie, in his respected West Coast Handicapping Report (WCHR) which was once endorsed by Baffert now openly calls him one of the slime ball trainers or one of the Super Feed trainers for his use of drugs (masked by others ). The only saving grace is he calls D’Amato worse names.

Super Feed Trainers, Baffert, Henie explains "These are the guys who’ve
mastered the labs, meaning, they know how to add to their feed buckets without a sign of negative drug results, masking, etc. There’s a reason why runners from these barns always seem to re-break at the top of the lane, “finding more” as Trevor Denman would say. Front runners in particular from these barns, are even more dangerous, especially when distance is added,logical, as EPO-like effects become much more evident over the longer assignments"

So as bettors we can't ignore Baffert and as horsemen wish for better times

[Track Phantom]

Originally Posted by Topcat

Baffert is very very good and I've followed him since his quarter horse days in Los Alamitos and when he lived in Huntington Beach, my area. I've met him and as a former T-bred horse owner I would say Bob was always accessible on the back stretch and friendly to fans. I liked him, still do.

Sadly, IMHO, things seemed to change about the time he divorced his wife Sherry of some 20 years, the mother of four of his children. I know these things happen and there are two sides to each story but when Baffert met Jill (current wife) and started a relationship, Baffert's extended family that are Catholic and attend Mass every Sunday and still lives in the area -well they really sided with Sherry, saying basically you shouldn't cheat on your wife. Jill is 16 years younger and a TV reporter at the time openly talked about being in love with a married man which did not exactly endure him to Baffert's family. I think that estranged Baffert a bit from his family-sort of what happened to Tiger Woods when his Dad died, Dad/family was the rock that kept him tethered. With no tether, anything goes. I guess that is a little harsh but we guys, myself included, have trouble with impulse control .

IMHO It was about that time that Baffert went more Hollywood (stunts like allowing Burger King to pay him to have their mascot right behind him in the winners circle etc) despite not having a connection to the horse.

Maybe it was coincidence but for whatever reason it was about this time that Baffert got into Super Feed/PEDs. IMHO, he was good enough that he didn't have to.

Rob Henie, in his respected West Coast Handicapping Report (WCHR) which was once endorsed by Baffert now openly calls him one of the slime ball trainers or one of the Super Feed trainers for his use of drugs (masked by others ). The only saving grace is he calls D’Amato worse names.

Super Feed Trainers, Baffert, Henie explains "These are the guys who’ve
mastered the labs, meaning, they know how to add to their feed buckets without a sign of negative drug results, masking, etc. There’s a reason why runners from these barns always seem to re-break at the top of the lane, “finding more” as Trevor Denman would say. Front runners in particular from these barns, are even more dangerous, especially when distance is added,logical, as EPO-like effects become much more evident over the longer assignments"

So as bettors we can't ignore Baffert and as horsemen wish for better times

Rob Henie chiming in here...which was pretty obvious.

[Sheffwed]

Hey Admin - could we combine this Baffert thread with the Drop in Handle thread?

Same subject - one has clearly led directly to the other

How much more interesting would SoCal Racing be without Baffert?

A lot more

[Robert Fischer]

Alotta these guys are doing the some things as Baffert.

There are 'Super Trainers' who use, and then there's the elite owners who produce like a super trainer.

[TrifectaBox]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Alotta these guys are doing the some things as Baffert.

There are 'Super Trainers' who use, and then there's the elite owners who produce like a super trainer.

Two sides of the same coin. Easy to spend lots of money when you know you have the edge going in .

[Ruffian1]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer;2933829[B

]Alotta these guys are doing the some things as Baffert.[/B]

There are 'Super Trainers' who use, and then there's the elite owners who produce like a super trainer.

I will respectfully disagree.

Which one of those other super trainers have, let's say, 1/2 as many positives, 15, or a 1/4 as many, 7+. And not all positives are equal. A bute overage positive, just over the limit or a widely used drug like a ...mycin of some sort are everywhere as they should be when needed. And a mistake can and does happen.


Steroids, which were legal until about 10 years ago are totally illegal. As are many others. An ounce of pot is not the same as an ounce of coke or heroin .

And this miniscule crap I saw posted by it doesn't matter, is nothing more than spin. Of course it's miniscule. It is in the blood or urine. What's it supposed to be, a pint?

I know you didn't say this but someone did and I would have called them out but everybody already knows who he is , so I held my tongue.

There are some trainers retiring, getting out of the game, or going to bed frightened at night. HISA , for all it's mess, is working but it has a lot of work to do.

Please don't give 30 positives a pass. It's just not fair to those that do not have that on their records.

Thanks for listening Robert.

[MJC922]

Originally Posted by Ruffian1

I will respectfully disagree.

Which one of those other super trainers have, let's say, 1/2 as many positives, 15, or a 1/4 as many, 7+. And not all positives are equal. A bute overage positive, just over the limit or a widely used drug like a ...mycin of some sort are everywhere as they should be when needed. And a mistake can and does happen.


Steroids, which were legal until about 10 years ago are totally illegal. As are many others. An ounce of pot is not the same as an ounce of coke or heroin .

And this miniscule crap I saw posted by it doesn't matter, is nothing more than spin. Of course it's miniscule. It is in the blood or urine. What's it supposed to be, a pint?

I know you didn't say this but someone did and I would have called them out but everybody already knows who he is , so I held my tongue.

There are some trainers retiring, getting out of the game, or going to bed frightened at night. HISA , for all it's mess, is working but it has a lot of work to do.

Please don't give 30 positives a pass. It's just not fair to those that do not have that on their records.

Thanks for listening Robert.

Just curious, how many of these 30 positives were for illegal medications? I'm not saying he doesn't use any illegal medications, I honestly don't know the answer to that. It's entirely plausible to me that he is using legal meds in such a way and training in such a way to get superior results. There are meds that are legal now that weren't 30 years ago. The only one I've heard say ban clen for example was Mark Casse. I have a lot of respect for that. Once you start calling for banning something which stresses the heart of the horse I'm 100% in your corner, but if you're using the same stuff and just not getting overages, to me that's different. A lot of legit hardworking trainers are going to have overages. Then it goes public and the general public immediately thinks illegal drugs are being used when it's nothing of the sort.

[lefty359]

I don't think CD banned him for LEGAL drugs

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by lefty359

I don't think CD banned him for LEGAL drugs

They did.

I tell you, watching people throw around slanderous claims is kind of gross. Call him reckless. Call him irresponsible. Whatever, but he has never been busted for illegal medications. A lot of people seem to think it's OK to make completely unsubstantiated claims. I wonder how they would feel if people did the same with them.

[denniswilliams]

Been at this over 50 years now. Seen a lot of good horses and a lot of not so good horses. Would like to think I have a reasonable sense of what's 'normal' running 'behavior' for thoroughbreds.



Have also seen a lot of high quality juicers. Interestingly, their horses were also able to re-break. Didn't need irrefragable 'evidence' to know that these trainers were juicing. Clearly, that's what seems to be required these days. Of course, the issue does not exactly lend itself to such a determination. Thus, while having an opinion that Oscar and Pete and any number of other trainers (some with significantly better stock) were clearly cheating, I wouldn't dare even think this to be the case for Baffert. I need definitive evidence: Experience be damned!!

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by denniswilliams

Been at this over 50 years now. Seen a lot of good horses and a lot of not so good horses. Would like to think I have a reasonable sense of what's 'normal' running 'behavior' for thoroughbreds.



Have also seen a lot of high quality juicers. Interestingly, their horses were also able to re-break. Didn't need irrefragable 'evidence' to know that these trainers were juicing. Clearly, that's what seems to be required these days. Of course, the issue does not exactly lend itself to such a determination. Thus, while having an opinion that Oscar and Pete and any number of other trainers (some with significantly better stock) were clearly cheating, I wouldn't dare even think this to be the case for Baffert. I need definitive evidence: Experience be damned!!

If you know the game

and you watch the game and the replays... Form opinions...

when a guy wins 27% and his horse presses a fast pace and wins by 4..,


you just experienced a potential juice race... common sense says

it doesn't tell you the Results of the Test.

[Ruffian1]

Originally Posted by the little guy

They did.

I tell you, watching people throw around slanderous claims is kind of gross. Call him reckless. Call him irresponsible. Whatever, but he has never been busted for illegal medications. A lot of people seem to think it's OK to make completely unsubstantiated claims. I wonder how they would feel if people did the same with them.

If I am one of those people that are being seen as throwing around slanderous claims, that is the last thing I would ever want to do.

There is an article from the Washington Post online from 2021 that did a deep dive into this story. Google it if you are interested. It is very easy to find.

It did say that 14 of the 29, at the time, positives were for bute. That is certainly a legal drug and probably the the most common overage drug found in the U.S.

Those do make sense. They are certainly not illegal drugs per say. But there have been 2 cases of Morphine. Is that what is called a legal drug? I am not sure what is called legal or illegal anymore.

It's in the article. Like I said, easy to find in google. Nothing I said is not something that is not in that article. Maybe the Washington Post got it wrong?

I suppose posting about all this is nothing more than venting at this point. Nothing will change from it. So for me, I'm all done with this issue.
GL everyone.

[Tom]

Perception is reality.
CD is sending a message about affert that is loud and clear to most people.

This game does a terrible job of appearing clean.

And just drugs.