When is it going to stop?

[Nitro]

Originally Posted by clicknow

You cannot argue with the fact that MANY deaths, human and animal, are indeed, preventable. That doesn't mean they won't happen, it means we can reduce them markedly though.

What the public is seeing, is what many passionate racing fans are seeing: a lack of uniform strategic plans and policies to address race horse safety by track owners and racing commissions, and a lack of task forces to put all the pieces of the puzzle together ( all the pieces, medication rules, musculoskeletal and cardiovascular issues, race track configurations, blah blahblah)----because we have to keep trying. For the longevity of the sport, and for the horses themselves.

WHEN you are showing you are dilligently TRYING to put all the pieces of the puzzle together, then people tend to be less judgemental because you have written out, for all to see, your goals and what you intend to do toward carrying them out.

Now, show me how the racing jurisdictions in Lousiana are trying. Show me that for Penn Nat. Show me that for Mountaineer.
SHOW ME THE STRATEGIC PLANS and Task forces.

Cuz the stuff I read makes my toes curl, and I would actually SUPPORT protesters who wanted the stuff that goes on in these places to end. I love horses, I love the sport, why wouldn't I want to see every stone turned and meticulous data kept in the interest of figuring out some strategies that might ameliorate some problems? Why wouldn't anyone want to do this work?

Originally Posted by groupie doll

Yes, this is exactly my point. A few years ago we didn't know about bisphosphonates... no telling what else we are currently unaware of, but if no one examines each and every death (objectively and not in a punitive manner), then we will never know and we can't fix what we don't know. This is the goal. Once the goal is in place (reduction in deaths), then a plan of how we get there can be constructed... hopefully not involving corrupt racing boards that are attached to a particular track and in the position to profit by sweeping data under the proverbial rug.

Some here have expressed concerns about horse fatalities and they’re potential causes. While others like myself are a bit more realistic when it comes to things like this occurring. That’s probably because we realize that you might be able to point to any number of reasons why a horse fatality has occurred. Of course, that’s AFTER the fact, and anyone concerned is obviously taking a typical REACTIVE posture with their sentiments.

In order to take a PROACTIVE approach those directly involved with the animal’s current physicality and those responsible for monitoring track conditions have to be able to address some not always apparent causes. From a practical and economic perspective this is easier said than done. If you’re thinking that every group of connections can afford to have a vet at their disposal 24/7 to provide a pre-race examination of every horse in their stable you’re greatly mistaken. The majority of the trainers and owners are operating on shoe-string budgets.

The track management is another story entirely. Depending on weather conditions this could involve an hourly assessment of how safe a track may or may not be. This aspect of horse racing could be monitored with more diligence, but it would require more manpower to do it properly. Of course, that means more cost.

Perhaps those individuals or groups (like PETA) who are So-o-o-o-o concerned wouldn’t mind subsidizing some of the costs involved in making the game safer for both the riders and those being ridden.

I personally feel that the rampant use of Lasix has certainly impacted the well being of horses in general. I’m told that a horse running on this medication may not bleed as much. However, at what detrimental cost to its overall training program? It seems that because there’s such a huge loss of internal body fluids after running on Lasix that at least two important factors are affected.

The horse has to replenish that lost fluid prior to both working out and racing again. On the surface may not seem like a big problem. But in reality, if a horse can’t workout within a reasonable amount of time (and perhaps as frequently) common sense dictates that this would have a negative impact on maintaining sufficient leg muscle strength? Even a slight loss could cause a serious problem while running all out in a race. This scenario also prohibits horses from racing as frequently because it apparently takes at least a month to recover those body fluids.

As I recall years ago before the legalization of Lasix horses were certainly racing much more frequently and while there were breakdowns and fatalities. Yet, as I also recall there certainly weren’t as many as we’re witnessing these days.
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[RacingFan1992]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

And yet a major medication proposed change gets voted down in Kentucky and yet is there even a mention of it on this forum?

Nope.

Have to question the motives on some of the threads when major news like that isnt even a topic yet we are chronicling with new threads every horse that sustains a breakdown.

Actually you don't have to question. I saw the latest breakdown count yesterday and created this thread yet I did not see major medication proposal until roughly an hour ago so excuse me if I make threads according to when they happen since the breakdown was yesterday and the vote was today. I can't predict the future of when news will be made.

[thaskalos]

The human body comes equipped with defense mechanisms which prohibit us from fully exerting ourselves on an ailing leg. Has anyone among us tried to run on a sprained ankle? A full-out effort is virtually impossible because the pain causes the body to shut down in order to prevent further damage to the limb. Since the horse's body probably operates the same way...numbing agents are administered to the horse which mask the pain that the animal should feel as a warning signal...causing the animal to run full out with no regard for the ailing limb. And the leg breaks while the horse is in full gallop...something that the pain -- if present-- would have never allowed to occur.

I bet on a horse today at Parx...and watched the horse break down while in full gallop along the backstretch...with the jockey helplessly and dangerously catapulted forward, in harm's way. I have no idea what the outcome was for horse and jockey...but I know that, even though horses are "bred to run"...this particular horse would have slowed down to a stop on its own if it felt the sharp pain of its ailing limb. These aren't "bad steps" we are seeing out there, folks.

[cj]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

The human body comes equipped with defense mechanisms which prohibit us from fully exerting ourselves on an ailing leg. Has anyone among us tried to run on a sprained ankle? A full-out effort is virtually impossible because the pain causes the body to shut down in order to prevent further damage to the limb. Since the horse's body probably operates the same way...numbing agents are administered to the horse which mask the pain that the animal should feel as a warning signal...causing the animal to run full out with no regard for the ailing limb. And the leg breaks while the horse is in full gallop...something that the pain -- if present-- would have never allowed to occur.

I bet on a horse today at Parx...and watched the horse break down while in full gallop along the backstretch...with the jockey helplessly and dangerously catapulted forward, in harm's way. I have no idea what the outcome was for horse and jockey...but I know that, even though horses are "bred to run"...this particular horse would have slowed down to a stop on its own if it felt the sharp pain of its ailing limb. These aren't "bad steps" we are seeing out there, folks.

Chart footnote says catastrophic injury and euthanized on the track.

Looks like the jockey is ok.

Twitter

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

The human body comes equipped with defense mechanisms which prohibit us from fully exerting ourselves on an ailing leg. Has anyone among us tried to run on a sprained ankle? A full-out effort is virtually impossible because the pain causes the body to shut down in order to prevent further damage to the limb. Since the horse's body probably operates the same way...numbing agents are administered to the horse which mask the pain that the animal should feel as a warning signal...causing the animal to run full out with no regard for the ailing limb. And the leg breaks while the horse is in full gallop...something that the pain -- if present-- would have never allowed to occur.

I bet on a horse today at Parx...and watched the horse break down while in full gallop along the backstretch...with the jockey helplessly and dangerously catapulted forward, in harm's way. I have no idea what the outcome was for horse and jockey...but I know that, even though horses are "bred to run"...this particular horse would have slowed down to a stop on its own if it felt the sharp pain of its ailing limb. These aren't "bad steps" we are seeing out there, folks.

Sharp post!

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

The human body comes equipped with defense mechanisms which prohibit us from fully exerting ourselves on an ailing leg. Has anyone among us tried to run on a sprained ankle? A full-out effort is virtually impossible because the pain causes the body to shut down in order to prevent further damage to the limb. Since the horse's body probably operates the same way...numbing agents are administered to the horse which mask the pain that the animal should feel as a warning signal...causing the animal to run full out with no regard for the ailing limb. And the leg breaks while the horse is in full gallop...something that the pain -- if present-- would have never allowed to occur.

I bet on a horse today at Parx...and watched the horse break down while in full gallop along the backstretch...with the jockey helplessly and dangerously catapulted forward, in harm's way. I have no idea what the outcome was for horse and jockey...but I know that, even though horses are "bred to run"...this particular horse would have slowed down to a stop on its own if it felt the sharp pain of its ailing limb. These aren't "bad steps" we are seeing out there, folks.

This is why I have been saying this whole "surface" thing with SA is just window dressing and avoiding the real problem.

You could say one surface may exasperate an issue more than another but in end you treat the disease not the symptom.

[The_Turf_Monster]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

This is why I have been saying this whole "surface" thing with SA is just window dressing and avoiding the real problem.

You could say one surface may exasperate an issue more than another but in end you treat the disease not the symptom.

The surface argument is only being used by ignorant people and those that have an axe to grind with the stronach group imo

[TMQ]

The biggest mistake the Breeders Cup made was leaving the event at Santa Anita this year after all the backlash after the string of breakdowns. It was the dumbest choice they could've ever made and this is exactly the reason why. These recent breakdowns couldn't come at a worse time besides the Kentucky Derby in terms of national media coverage.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

And yet a major medication proposed change gets voted down in Kentucky and yet is there even a mention of it on this forum?

Nope.

Have to question the motives on some of the threads when major news like that isnt even a topic yet we are chronicling with new threads every horse that sustains a breakdown.

Major? It was on Lasix. They did vote on reforms that actually should help to prevent breakdowns.

[Hambletonian]

The problem is not one track or one drug. The problem is that purses are so high that the majority of horses are treated as rentals, no more, no less. Race them until they can no longer compete then dispose of to a cheaper circuit, rinse, repeat. When was the last time you saw a cheap horse with regular lay ups?

Back when I was a pup cheap claimers on the NYRA circuit ran 25 times a year, and while they did have form cycles, there was nothing crazy until OSB showed up.

From that point on, we went from the a game dominated by horsemen to a game dominated by vets, and it has not been good for the horses.

Breakdowns cannot be completely eliminated. But when was the last time you saw a horse in France or England equipped with fronts? I recommend checking out Gina Rarick on Facebook, she is an American trainer based in Paris. You quickly realize that racing in France and England is a sport, not a money making proposition-which is way better for the horses.

Very few race horses get to live out their natural born life. But the percentage today that leave racing as hopeless cripples seems to be on the rise. Even if they can be rehomed, how many folks are willing to provide them with the care they need?

Mist racing fans have lived in a dreamworld where as long as they don't see their favorite horses die on the track, they raced and were retired and lived out their lives in frolicking in a field with a bunch of buddies.

All too often today we find out there are few happy endings. And what has been an acceptable body count for the industry will prove to be unacceptable to the average person.

The industry need to get ahead of the curve. Let's make sure all racing horses are microchipped and carry an online certificate from cradle to grave, tracking major vet work and ownership transactions. Let's see what the true body count is, and what can be done about it.

[airford1]

Simple . dont respond to stupid questions and demands.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

Major? It was on Lasix. They did vote on reforms that actually should help to prevent breakdowns.

Lasix is one of the biggest issues. Why do people use lasix (or a form of)? It aint for bleeding.

“We have to pull our heads out of the sand,” Thayer said. “If you are not willing to make reforms then you need to take a long look in the mirror and seriously consider whether you should be on this council.”

[groupie doll]

Originally Posted by Nitro

Some here have expressed concerns about horse fatalities and they’re potential causes. While others like myself are a bit more realistic when it comes to things like this occurring. That’s probably because we realize that you might be able to point to any number of reasons why a horse fatality has occurred. Of course, that’s AFTER the fact, and anyone concerned is obviously taking a typical REACTIVE posture with their sentiments.

In order to take a PROACTIVE approach those directly involved with the animal’s current physicality and those responsible for monitoring track conditions have to be able to address some not always apparent causes. From a practical and economic perspective this is easier said than done. If you’re thinking that every group of connections can afford to have a vet at their disposal 24/7 to provide a pre-race examination of every horse in their stable you’re greatly mistaken. The majority of the trainers and owners are operating on shoe-string budgets.

The track management is another story entirely. Depending on weather conditions this could involve an hourly assessment of how safe a track may or may not be. This aspect of horse racing could be monitored with more diligence, but it would require more manpower to do it properly. Of course, that means more cost.

Perhaps those individuals or groups (like PETA) who are So-o-o-o-o concerned wouldn’t mind subsidizing some of the costs involved in making the game safer for both the riders and those being ridden.

I personally feel that the rampant use of Lasix has certainly impacted the well being of horses in general. I’m told that a horse running on this medication may not bleed as much. However, at what detrimental cost to its overall training program? It seems that because there’s such a huge loss of internal body fluids after running on Lasix that at least two important factors are affected.

The horse has to replenish that lost fluid prior to both working out and racing again. On the surface may not seem like a big problem. But in reality, if a horse can’t workout within a reasonable amount of time (and perhaps as frequently) common sense dictates that this would have a negative impact on maintaining sufficient leg muscle strength? Even a slight loss could cause a serious problem while running all out in a race. This scenario also prohibits horses from racing as frequently because it apparently takes at least a month to recover those body fluids.

As I recall years ago before the legalization of Lasix horses were certainly racing much more frequently and while there were breakdowns and fatalities. Yet, as I also recall there certainly weren’t as many as we’re witnessing these days.
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Very good post. You are absolutely correct that the proactive stance is the way to do in order to prevent some catastrophic injuries.

I did not intend for my previous post to sound reactive (well the remark about the CHRB was, kind of), but there is great value, imho, in looking retroactively at the cause of each and every death. That's why I stated that I think these examinations and data collating needs to be done, in many cases, in a non-punitive manner. The goal should be reduction in deaths, not to penalize every single person who has a horse break down on the track. I am a lifelong fan of ths sport (going on almost 50 years) and I would love to see improvements made to make the sport both safer and to enhance the entertainment value. Not looking at deaths after they occur is not helping in this regard.
I don't work with racehorses, but I work with non-human animals and every time there is an unexpected/unanticipated death there is a post-mortem necropsy that occurs. Probably 3/4 of the time there are "normal findings" on gross necropsy and histology, but once in awhile there is something unusual that is found and that goes into the date banks as information that could potentially help future animals being used in my field.

[horsefan2019]

Originally Posted by The_Turf_Monster

The surface argument is only being used by ignorant people and those that have an axe to grind with the stronach group imo

If a horse is so fragile that it breaks its leg running on a natural surface like grass or dirt that tells me the breed is doomed. Synthetics in that case are only a band-aid.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by horsefan2019

If a horse is so fragile that it breaks its leg running on a natural surface like grass or dirt that tells me the breed is doomed. Synthetics in that case are only a band-aid.

Band-aids, as you put it, are important!

Think about this statement:

"If people drive their cars so irresponsibly and unsafely that tens of thousands of people are killed in auto accidents every year, seatbelts and airbags and guardrails on the road in this case are only band-aids."

The way you care about safety isn't to isolate one safety measure and say "see, it doesn't solve the problem!", but to actually implement as many different safety measures as you can, to try and control the problem as much as possible.