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Old 09-23-2010, 11:28 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by senortout
oh yeah they were motoring for sure. Think the days of that one running off by hisself are gonna be few and far between from here on out. Even if he hasn't lost a step, the way to beat him is with a team running at him in stages and very few have been all that willing to take up the chase. But that has changed. It will be good for racing though. Standardbreds have some sort of rule against going too slow I think? One thing they do use at the trots is a timer which displays the splits
for all the drivers to sLee.

So much for the old adage..."he's got a clock in his head"

What do you think? How on earth can the quickest horse in the race get ahead of all the others and then slow things way down, and still be leading the race......you will hear Dirken for example saying how perfectly content that horse sitting back in fourth is, next thing you know, that phony pace has ruined his chances.
It was a 1 1/16 th race not 1 3/8 so Hugo and Mikoshi were used to a faster pace , unlike the longer race rivals.PP still had motored off by 5L into the clubhouse turn only to be collared by Hugo at the 1/2 mile pole. He only went off at 4/5 so more than a few werea bit skeptical in not pounding him down further. his glory days may be behind him now as he now has 2 poor races in a row yet he was coming off a layoff; but he is a really neat horse who I've had the pleasure of watching a few times with that will to win finish that one loves to see.
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Old 09-23-2010, 11:30 AM   #17
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If a pace scenario dictates that a horse is at a serious disadvantage, class may have nothing to do with that loss, only a bad match up.
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Old 09-23-2010, 06:40 PM   #18
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Talking about this with a friend today and he said that Delaware's turf may be pretty soft even when called hard/firm, but that shouldn't be any sort of excuse for PP.
If Trujillo hadn't traveled down to ride Hartman's horses, what do you imagine Presious Passion's odds would have been?--maybe 7-5 instead?

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Old 09-23-2010, 07:49 PM   #19
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A little off topic, but the quality of the European turf horses was mentioned.

I don't know enough about the biology and development of horses to know if this is true, but if it is it might say more about the gap between the US and Europe than we realize.

My niece owns a jumper that is a former thoroughbred.

The horse does everything it's supposed to do really well except when it has to do them clockwise.

The horse was examined by someone that "supposedly" could figure out the problem and he said the horses muscles, coordination etc.. were more developed on one side than the other because of its experience as a racehorse always running counter clockwise and it knew it was incapable of executing some things going the other way.

Conversations about horses not being familiar with running the opposite way when they come to the US are fairly common. But I never heard anyone suggest that a horse actually develops its muscles and coordination better on one side than the other because of running the turns one way or the other most of the time.

If that's true, then the gap between European turf horses and US turf horses may be even bigger than we think because they are even more disadvantaged than many think (or at least I thought).

That would also account for some of the horrid races by US based turf horses when they try to challenge the best turf horses going clockwise.

It's almost like the Europeans are beating us with their left hands.

Like I said, I have no idea if this is true, but it seems reasonable and is certainly an interesting theory.
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Old 09-23-2010, 08:45 PM   #20
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"The horse does everything it's supposed to do really well except when it has to do them clockwise."


In addition, think of the advantage young horses racing in Europe get in sprints that are straight. Surely less chance of injury while bones are lengthening and muscles, tendons and ligaments are competing for oxygen. Carrying weight while running around a turf course turn has got to put tons of stress on the outer limbs.

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Old 09-23-2010, 09:44 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jldonah
Talking about this with a friend today and he said that Delaware's turf may be pretty soft even when called hard/firm, but that shouldn't be any sort of excuse for PP.
If Trujillo hadn't traveled down to ride Hartman's horses, what do you imagine Presious Passion's odds would have been?--maybe 7-5 instead?
If the turf was soft, it would be an excuse for PP as Hartman has mentioned before that he doesnot like it and has scratched before for that reason if i remember right. She maynot have had much of a choice to get a race into him as a prep around 2 turns as monmouth has limited races and Belmont is one turn. Who knows
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Old 09-24-2010, 12:11 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classhandicapper
If that's true, then the gap between European turf horses and US turf horses may be even bigger than we think because they are even more disadvantaged than many think (or at least I thought).

That would also account for some of the horrid races by US based turf horses when they try to challenge the best turf horses going clockwise.

It's almost like the Europeans are beating us with their left hands.

Like I said, I have no idea if this is true, but it seems reasonable and is certainly an interesting theory.
There's no doubt that turning in the opposite direction requires different muscles. I can tell that when I run clockwise on a running track instead of the usual counterclockwise.

Should be noted, of course, that many Euro courses/races are lefthanded (counter-clockwise) so it isn't necessarily foreign to the Euro horses to turn in that direction. I would think it might be more of a disadvantage to North American horses to try racing on a righthanded course, as they get no experience here in that regard.
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Old 09-24-2010, 04:43 PM   #23
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Pressious Passion is seven years old and is probably not a Grade 1 horse anymore but he sure is fun to watch when he is right.
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Old 09-24-2010, 04:57 PM   #24
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I hope he gets right again...I felt really bad about this race...but they sure didn't give him a break at all...I'm still bummed about him just getting nailed last year at Breeders Cup...that was tough to take!!
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Old 09-25-2010, 12:07 AM   #25
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I didn't like to see that race the other day either. PP is one of my favorites over the last few years.

I remember standing on the rail at last year's Breeders Cup, and I said to my group to watch PP, he is going to be ahead by 10 or more......and he is going to win this race. The guy next to me so he had no chance after a 1/2. I told him, just watch, he's gonna get this. I thought I was right till the end.

I just love a horse that goes out and runs as hard as they can, and just dig in at the end. Regardless if his best days are over, he will always be one of my guys!!
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Old 10-16-2010, 07:57 PM   #26
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Belmont Race 8 10.17.2010

Knickerbocker Stakes (G3) 9F Turf
# Horse
1 War Hoot
2 Leading On
3 Presious Passion
4 Whatsthescript (IRE)
5 Wesley
6 Interpatation
7 Baletti
8 Midnight Mischief
9 Violon Sacre
10 Operation Red Dawn
11 Barrier Reef -MTO
12 Discreet Treasure -MTO
13 Marilyn's Guy -MTO
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