Cynthia/Horsestreet

[Trotman]

Both are part of this forum Dave Horsestreet and Dick Cynthia. My question is to all is which set of pars addresses all surfaces and shippers to and from Canada and do they do all Canadian tracks not that there are many.
I believe Beyer wrote in his books that to make things easier just order the pars by Cynthia and yet DRF has Horsestreet listed in their book section.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Trotman

Both are part of this forum Dave Horsestreet and Dick Cynthia.

Dave is certainly a part of this forum, but Dick Mitchell passed away in 2005.

[Trotman]

Thanks PA for the info

[Jake]

Go with the Horsestreet pars. Dave is very good with his approach to small sample sizes and making adjustments.

Jake

[banacek]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Plus, a quick look at the Cynthia site shows the only par product to be "2009 California Pars Plus" which is pars for Cali tracks + key shipper tracks...

Actually they have the California book listed for $45 and the full one for $129

[KingChas]

Originally Posted by Jake

Go with the Horsestreet pars. Dave is very good with his approach to small sample sizes and making adjustments.

Jake

These are ever changing par #'s.I overpaid once ,never again.archives are free now
,unless your lazy, make your own pars.Or adjust for Delaware park Arabain's,or almost distances.
Do you want to pay for someone else's numbers or make your own?
That no one else has ?
That's up to you.
With horse racing being a parimutial pool I prefer to have my own!

[Dave Schwartz]

We do as many of the small tracks as we can. I must admit that some of them are just impossible because the information is so out of whack.

BCF (Brown County Fair) is my favorite example.

One year BCF's 6.5f par was 6 seconds faster than its 6f par. Looking at the races, I assumed that the distances were recorded incorrectly.

Trotman asked my privately about Canadian tracks. Truthfully, I sometimes forget which are which, although there is actually a field for it.

Here are the tracks I consider "small" that we cover.

ANF ARP ASD ATO BOI BRD DUN EUR FAR FER FLG FMT FON FTP GCF GF GIL GLD GPR GRP HPO KAM KD LBG LNN MAN MD MPF MPM NMP NP SAF SJ SRP STP SUD TIM WRD


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[KingChas]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

We do as many of the small tracks as we can. I must admit that some of them are just impossible because the information is so out of whack.

BCF (Brown County Fair) is my favorite example.

One year BCF's 6.5f par was 6 seconds faster than its 6f par. Looking at the races, I assumed that the distances were recorded incorrectly.

Trotman asked my privately about Canadian tracks. Truthfully, I sometimes forget which are which, although there is actually a field for it.

Here are the tracks I consider "small" that we cover.

ANF ARP ASD ATO BOI BRD DUN EUR FAR FER FLG FMT FON FTP GCF GF GIL GLD GPR GRP HPO KAM KD LBG LNN MAN MD MPF MPM NMP NP SAF SJ SRP STP SUD TIM WRD


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

Dave,I have seen your sample pace figs,excellent but your like the oil,prices,until u come down to the the current economic price's you will only draw the pro bettors and not the weekend warriors,of course maybe thats what you want?

[proximity]

horsestreet's pars are pure quirin style pars. for example at belmont the difference in final time pars between stakes horses and 20k mcls is about four seconds...... whether the distance of the race is 5 furlongs or a mile and a half..... so you may struggle if you plan on using these pars to make some class based beyer style (parallel time chart) speed figures.

if you're using the pars to make pace figures, the relationships between the pace and final times are much better with horsestreet. horses do not run the way cynthia's pars say they do. there are also other inconsistencies with the cynthia pars.....too many.... which led me to even try horsestreet's in the first place.

there is some interesting supplementary information that comes with cynthia's pars, but for as far as for the basic raw par data is concerned i'd say horsestreet.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by banacek

Actually they have the California book listed for $45 and the full one for $129

Indeed they do...I neglected to see they had a big fat NEXT button on their Product List page...

Here is a direct link to the par book:

http://www.cynthiapublishing.com/Mer...ode=IN-ALLPARS

It's also available in electronic form...

http://www.cynthiapublishing.com/Mer...t_Code=PROPARS

I apologize for posting the misinformation earlier...I have edited my original post...

[KingChas]

Originally Posted by proximity

horsestreet's pars are pure quirin style pars. for example at belmont the difference in final time pars between stakes horses and 20k mcls is about four seconds...... whether the distance of the race is 5 furlongs or a mile and a half..... so you may struggle if you plan on using these pars to make some class based beyer style (parallel time chart) speed figures.

if you're using the pars to make pace figures, the relationships between the pace and final times are much better with horsestreet. horses do not run the way cynthia's pars say they do. there are also other inconsistencies with the cynthia pars.....too many.... which led me to even try horsestreet's in the first place.

there is some interesting supplementary information that comes with cynthia's pars, but for as far as for the basic raw par data is concerned i'd say horsestreet.

Sttill price is to high for weekend warrior.Without doing my home workout..............$20 max...............!

[PaceAdvantage]

Link to HorseStreet pars:

http://horsestreet.com/products/index.html#Par Times

[PaceAdvantage]

I must also state for the record that I have been a customer of Dave's par times for many years for use in my own programming endeavors, and remain as satisfied as ever with his product.

[Dave Schwartz]

KingC,

Unfortunately, the amount of use that you would get from the product does not determine the price. That is a combination of what the public will pay and the cost of production.

While I would like to have everyone's business, $20 is simply a ridiculous price considering the amount of work that goes into building them. The book currently costs us $13 to print and $9 to ship.

Alas, we will simply have to continue going without your money and you will continue to play without our pars.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[CincyHorseplayer]

$150.00 bucks is cheap.Even if you bet $100 a day once a week.Bargain...