Religion II

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by dnlgfnk

In these standard arguments, Philo is always cited as the one who had the best reasons to cite Jesus (mentions Judean events and Pontius Pilate). But to my understanding, he doesn't mention Anthronges, Theudas, Hillel, Honi, or John the Baptist either.

Though I've read of coins in his image and locations named after him?, does Alexander the Great have anything written of him by contemporaries? (asking sincerely).

Back to Seneca, speculating on whether his boss would frown on Seneca doing the legwork necessary to familarize himself with Jesus/the new sect?

Are you suggesting that the only historical proof of Alexander the Great's existence are the ancient coins...and the cities named after him? And even so...is there even the slightest historical proof to support the existence of a "god-man" who raised the dead and cured the blind? How does history totally ignore this sort of being?

If we blindly accept the folklore created by the religion fanatics...then these miracle-working "holy-men" are a dime a dozen. India is full of them, as we speak.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Are you suggesting that the only historical proof of Alexander the Great's existence are the ancient coins...and the cities named after him? And even so...is there even the slightest historical proof to support the existence of a "god-man" who raised the dead and cured the blind? How does history totally ignore this sort of being?

If we blindly accept the folklore created by the religion fanatics...then these miracle-working "holy-men" are a dime a dozen. India is full of them, as we speak.

I will defer to Doc to see how he responds before chiming in, since you responded to his post.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by boxcar

I will defer to Doc to see how he responds before chiming in, since you responded to his post.

No...PLEASE. I welcome your response as well.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

No...PLEASE. I welcome your response as well.

I'll wait for Doc. I don't want to steal his thunder.

[thaskalos]

I can't wait for Doc any longer. See you guys again Wednesday night.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Of course, I can. The bible goes back to Day 1 of Creation.

13.8 billion years?

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

I'll wait for Doc.

Tell. me again. Who's Doc?

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

And how many writers wrote "Lord of the Rings"?

Thousands. The Red Book of Westmarch, which is the source for accounts of the War of the Rings, contains not only the Hobbit histories but Elvish lore and genealogies and a whole history of Middle Earth compiled over millennia. There's more than enough to start a religion and fleece the sheep of their money.

But multiple authorship is not required. L. Ron Hubbard did it all by himself as did Joseph Smith. Both of their descendants are doing a thriving business, tax free with the government powerless to stop them thanks to the first amendment. Such a deal.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

All the King of kings and Lord of lords did was drain the swamp (in this case clearing the Promised Land of sinners) ...

Are not all men sinners according to your theology? What makes these "sinners" worse than the invaders?

Originally Posted by boxcar

... to prepare the way for his new tenants. I would think that a landlord has a legal right to evict really bad tenants, no?

I have owned property and have evicted tenants. If a tenants refuses to leave then you hire a lawyer, he files papers, you wait months before a judge hears your case, then the sheriff kicks them out. You do not arm your new tenants and have them go in and murder the occupants, rape women, and smash the skulls of infants.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Actor

I have owned property and have evicted tenants. If a tenants refuses to leave then you hire a lawyer, he files papers, you wait months before a judge hears your case, then the sheriff kicks them out. You do not arm your new tenants and have them go in and murder the occupants, rape women, and smash the skulls of infants.

This only means that you aren't "holy". If you were, then you would be obligated to carry out "true justice"...by mercilessly putting the sword to the throats of the "bad tenants". After all...the price of disobedience is DEATH! Haven't you been paying attention to what Boxcar has been saying here?

[dnlgfnk]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Are you suggesting that the only historical proof of Alexander the Great's existence are the ancient coins...and the cities named after him? And even so...is there even the slightest historical proof to support the existence of a "god-man" who raised the dead and cured the blind? How does history totally ignore this sort of being?

If we blindly accept the folklore created by the religion fanatics...then these miracle-working "holy-men" are a dime a dozen. India is full of them, as we speak.

"Asking sincerely" means I'm asking from a point of general ignorance, not asserting a position rhetorically. Even so, researching the topic reveals that the answer is not a slam dunk even for the best responses.

What I am suggesting is that finding contemporary sources for most ancient biographical subjects is difficult. Here's a parody on substituting Hannibal for Christ. For me and others I admire

(Ofloinn...http://tofspot.blogspot.com/2011/01/...ibal.html#more )

...it hits the mark on the typical running dialogue supplied by Jesus mythicists...

http://www.mandm.org.nz/2011/01/did-...age-exist.html

[dnlgfnk]

Originally Posted by boxcar

I'll wait for Doc. I don't want to steal his thunder.

Sorry, Boxcar.

I attended a religious father-son event at my son's school, incomparably more rewarding than rehashing the same old same old. And I was really determined to stay at 900 posts, about 800 too many since Off Topic can be summed as "After debate, we will always be at impasse, since no belief exists in a vacuum".

[Actor]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

This only means that you aren't "holy". If you were, then you would be obligated to carry out "true justice"...by mercilessly putting the sword to the throats of the "bad tenants". After all...the price of disobedience is DEATH! Haven't you been paying attention to what Boxcar has been saying here?

I have been paying attention, particularly when he says "Only God is good." God, if he exists, may be "holy" but if his methods are those of Nazi storm troopers then he is not good.

If God needs "living space" (Hitler's words) for his chosen people why does he have to send them on a murderous conquest? Why not send rain down to the Sinai and make it a land of milk and honey? Jesus Christ, he's God for God's sake. If he can create a universe just by saying "Let there be..." then how much trouble can it possibly be to simply say "Let there be rain in the Sinai"? While he's at it how about "Let there be oil in the Sinai" and make his chosen people rich when the 20th century comes?

Why not send the burning bush to Pharaoh? He could have peacefully worked the whole thing out right there. But no, Pharaoh does not get an audience with a burning bush. Instead God slips Pharaoh a mickey and gives him a hardened heart. In this debilitated condition Pharaoh does not do what God wants and God used this as an excuse to show off to his chosen people and be a dick.

God has issues. Number one seems to be a lack of self esteem. He needs to see a shrink.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by dnlgfnk

I attended a religious father-son event at my son's school, ...

I assume said school was not funded with taxpayer money.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by dnlgfnk

"Asking sincerely" means I'm asking from a point of general ignorance, not asserting a position rhetorically. Even so, researching the topic reveals that the answer is not a slam dunk even for the best responses.

What I am suggesting is that finding contemporary sources for most ancient biographical subjects is difficult. Here's a parody on substituting Hannibal for Christ. For me and others I admire

(Ofloinn...http://tofspot.blogspot.com/2011/01/...ibal.html#more )

...it hits the mark on the typical running dialogue supplied by Jesus mythicists...

http://www.mandm.org.nz/2011/01/did-...age-exist.html

It's no great tragedy if Hannibal never existed...and the same could be said of Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Alexander the Great...and every other "great" man whom history has deemed "significant" and worthy of study and remembrance. These were all mere mortals...who never claimed to be anything else. But Jesus comes advertised as the God-man who "defeated death"...and upon whose shoulders untold billions of people through the ages have placed their hopes for a fortuitous afterlife. If Jesus never existed -- or if he existed merely as a rabbi who led a small group of disciples (which is what I, personally, happen to believe) -- then this means that a great hoax has been perpetuated on billions and billions of people...who continue to be misled to this day...and will likely be misled for eons to come. And that makes for a great tragedy indeed.