Yuvetsi 8th Santa Anita

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by cj

I think this is it in a nutshell. Racing did everything it could to stem the tide of declining handle. What is the saying, something about digging a grave and having to lie in it?

In post #54, I said the same thing...using different words.

[Ian Meyers]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I meant no disrespect by my retort, Ian, I just felt that your post here had an unnecessary (and atypical) hint of "anger" in it...especially when you stated that..."the guys who make up CAW teams are a lot smarter than you are. They're a lot smarter than I am too and I'm a well-educated guy". As you can plainly see...the clear implication made by the way you crafted these sentences is that the rest of us here aren't "well-educated"...which may, or may NOT be true. If you got angry because your prior posts of this type had gone "ignored" by us, causing you to have to "repeat" yourself...then I, for one, assure you that it wasn't done INTENTIONALLY. I can't even remember what I ate yesterday.

Wasn't directed at you, and I KNOW there are a lot of well-educated people on this board. I've heard a lot of people say over the years "yeah, I could win too if I got those rebates or I could bet after the bell, or scan the pools for overlays, etc." What I was pointing out is that it's not easy to do this.

CAW teams are populated by the smartest of the smart. When I'm on calls with them I always feel like I'm the dumbest (outside of subject matter expertise things). The team I work most closely with has about 30 employees none without a PHD in some quantitative field. What I was trying to say, and I admit not very elegantly, that maybe some that criticize should just recognize that when you get a bunch of mathematicians together to develop trading models you're likely to get some very good stuff. They also, to a man, work harder than most people I know, 60+ hours a week typically.

The other irony in all this is a number of guys I know were making MUCH more working for hedge funds and left to do this because they thought it would be a cool thing to do.

[Hambletonian]

I can't believe this subject is even debatable.

If you are a value player, the computer guys have taken away all the major circuits. If I like a horse whose fair odds are 6-1 and he is 10-1 2 minutes before post time, how can I be sure that a computer tied directly into the pools is not going to dump thousands of dollars into the pool in the last second and take away that edge? Their computer programs look through all the pools for these edges and neutralize them.

I wouldn't give a crap if they all had to enter their bets manually, and if they did not have access to all the will pays electronically. Let them all what the will pays until their eyes bleed like the rest of us, and put in their own bets with their fingers.

[Ian Meyers]

Not to single Hambletonian, out but there are thousands of smaller players that have developed software that analyzes will pays and places bets. In fact, some like At The Races is sold for as little as $100. Jcapper has great software that can search for value, same with Dave Schwartz.

Big players actually have LESS of an advantage than they did ten years ago in terms of technology/access. I know that because my partners and I at PTC were the first ADW to develop some of those tools.

[PaceAdvantage]

Like I said when this whole tangent took off again, adapt or die.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Originally Posted by Ian Meyers

Wasn't directed at you, and I KNOW there are a lot of well-educated people on this board. I've heard a lot of people say over the years "yeah, I could win too if I got those rebates or I could bet after the bell, or scan the pools for overlays, etc." What I was pointing out is that it's not easy to do this.

CAW teams are populated by the smartest of the smart. When I'm on calls with them I always feel like I'm the dumbest (outside of subject matter expertise things). The team I work most closely with has about 30 employees none without a PHD in some quantitative field. What I was trying to say, and I admit not very elegantly, that maybe some that criticize should just recognize that when you get a bunch of mathematicians together to develop trading models you're likely to get some very good stuff. They also, to a man, work harder than most people I know, 60+ hours a week typically.


The other irony in all this is a number of guys I know were making MUCH more working for hedge funds and left to do this because they thought it would be a cool thing to do.

So you work with a team of about 30 math PHDs betting on horses..? Not that I doubt you but it is sort of surprising...and you say that many actually PREFER the racing challenge over the hedge fund biz even though they make less...? So is this joint effort a hobby or a business venture...? I just have never heard of a gaggle of math PHD’s being so involved in something of this nature....usually math nerds are much more practical in their life endeavors...please tell us more details about all this...it sounds very interesting....

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

So you work with a team of about 30 math PHDs betting on horses..? Not that I doubt you but it is sort of surprising...and you say that many actually PREFER the racing challenge over the hedge fund biz even though they make less...? So is this joint effort a hobby or a business venture...? I just have never heard of a gaggle of math PHD’s being so involved in something of this nature....usually math nerds are much more practical in their life endeavors...please tell us more details about all this...it sounds very interesting....

Don't even bother trolling...I get it, you don't believe him....but it's true.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Don't even bother trolling...I get it, you don't believe him....but it's true.

why do insist on thinking I am a troll just because I express interest in a poster and a post...really mike, it is sort of intimidating...you really just do not like me do you...? You give me no benefit of the doubt whatsoever, do you...I get it, you don’t have anything better to do than to TROLL me, do you...?

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

why do insist on thinking I am a troll just because I express interest in a poster and a post...really mike, it is sort of intimidating...you really just do not like me do you...? You give me no benefit of the doubt whatsoever, do you...I get it, you don’t have anything better to do than to TROLL me, do you...?

I've been around the block...you've been a troll off and on since day one.

And I like the passive aggressiveness in your last post. "Not that I doubt you..." then you go on and post nothing but doubtful questions.

You're trolling us bro...I get it...happens all the time.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

I've been around the block...you've been a troll off and on since day one.

And I like the passive aggressiveness in your last post. "Not that I doubt you..." then you go on and post nothing but doubtful questions.

You're trolling us bro...I get it...happens all the time.

And what would be my motivation for trolling on this website...a site that I am really quite fond of...participate regularly in..and respect all of it’s members and have not once said anything directly personal but only my opinions of rather general items... really mike you need to get a grip on This...I am a nice person who enjoys talking with other horseplayers about horse racing topics...you are very mistaken about me being some kind of troll...you are not dealing in reality on this one....what do you think I would to trying to accomplish by what you refer to as my “trolling”. ...
..that’s just plain wacko...I dislike telling you this but I would like it to stop...and don’t know any other way than to just be open about it and tell you the truth....

[PaceAdvantage]

Thaskalos already brought up off-topic into this thread. Should I go into your early days in off-topic? In the religion section?

Like I said...I know you're trolling me bro...I get it...you can stop the act.

"Not that I doubt you..." but here's my list of doubts...LMAO

Funny guy.

Good troll bro.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Thaskalos already brought up off-topic into this thread. Should I go into your early days in off-topic? In the religion section?

Like I said...I know you're trolling me bro...I get it...you can stop the act.

"Not that I doubt you..." but here's my list of doubts...LMAO

Funny guy.

Good troll bro.

I wasn’t doubting him, quite the opposite...I KNOW that he is telling the truth, that is what I find so disturbing...that there exist coteries of PHD’s that have formed Doctor’s Club Cartels to exploit parimutuel pools across the nation using sophisticated computerized high volume methods to enrich themselves at the expense of rank and file players...this is a horrible thing for racing to be happening....so no, I DO NOT DOUBT HIM AT ALL, I only wish it were not the case, and that these Sophistcated and highly organized Operations that employ upwards of 30 PHD employees in a kind of brain trust would abandon their methods for the good of racing...and the small player. IMHO....

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

I wasn’t doubting him, quite the opposite...I KNOW that he is telling the truth, that is what I find so disturbing...that there exist coteries of PHD’s that have formed Doctor’s Club Cartels to exploit parimutuel pools across the nation using sophisticated computerized high volume methods to enrich themselves at the expense of rank and file players...this is a horrible thing for racing to be happening....so no, I DO NOT DOUBT HIM AT ALL, I only wish it were not the case, and that these Sophistcated and highly organized Operations that employ upwards of 30 PHD employees in a kind of brain trust would abandon their methods for the good of racing...and the small player. IMHO....

OK. I apologize then.

However, what you wrote above makes me almost want to vomit.

You want to take away someone's edge just because they are better than you...

Not only is that against the whole point of becoming a serious handicapper, it's pretty much anti-American...

What is with you guys?

GET A GRIP.

These "CRW teams" haven't made the game unbeatable for the rest of us. They've provided one helluva excuse to whine though...

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Hambletonian

I can't believe this subject is even debatable.

If you are a value player, the computer guys have taken away all the major circuits. If I like a horse whose fair odds are 6-1 and he is 10-1 2 minutes before post time, how can I be sure that a computer tied directly into the pools is not going to dump thousands of dollars into the pool in the last second and take away that edge? Their computer programs look through all the pools for these edges and neutralize them.

I wouldn't give a crap if they all had to enter their bets manually, and if they did not have access to all the will pays electronically. Let them all what the will pays until their eyes bleed like the rest of us, and put in their own bets with their fingers.

Amen - NO one should be allowed to tie into the pools to wager.
There should be only one way to make a bet - manually, one at a time. ADW, on track, phone call. Period.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Tom

Amen - NO one should be allowed to tie into the pools to wager.
There should be only one way to make a bet - manually, one at a time. ADW, on track, phone call. Period.

What? Come on man...what about the batch betting features at multiple ADWs?

What about the program I wrote that automatically bets for me...multiple bets at a time...as many as I want?

Are you guys joking?