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View Poll Results: How do you feel about gun control laws?
Current laws infringe on our rights and should be weakened 21 17.80%
Current laws are just fine, thanks. We don't need anything more 28 23.73%
Current laws are not satisfactory, there are "common sense" adjustments that should be made 69 58.47%
Voters: 118. This poll is closed

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Old 07-27-2018, 05:07 PM   #721
elysiantraveller
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Originally Posted by hcap View Post
I hold 2 US patents. I can tell you sometimes the way around "limitations" is to think differently. Without thoroughly investigating the patent art, the first thing that comes to mind is to accept tradeoffs in the standard performance of the usual.

Tom is right.

Re-design the bullets out of a softer material. Plastics. Tensile strength is the issue in the barrel, but to get a lump of poly carbonate or similar to spin at relatively high velocity, seems like the simpler problem.

So Dan is correct. Will still maim and kill, but not to perfection. Will be more undetectable, and perhaps easier to produce.

.314 Atlas A softer metal. Mmachined from 1018 cold rolled steel.(low carbon steel)

https://mikescustomweaponry.wordpres.../05/314-atlas/

https://gizmodo.com/plastic-3d-print...wor-1654929202
Your issue is density, inertia, and energy.

Sure is possible to throw plastic fast enough to offset those problems but that just requires more propellant and pressure then becomes the enemy.

It's interesting and in sure there would be sweet spots for performance within the allowable tolerances... sounds like something more for hobbyists or engineers though and much less a practical way of causing harm to anything.
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Old 07-27-2018, 05:48 PM   #722
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Your issue is density, inertia, and energy.

Sure is possible to throw plastic fast enough to offset those problems but that just requires more propellant and pressure then becomes the enemy.

It's interesting and in sure there would be sweet spots for performance within the allowable tolerances... sounds like something more for hobbyists or engineers though and much less a practical way of causing harm to anything.
I admit I am not a gun person and only looked at the problem from an engineering point of view. Gun enthusiasts are naturally looking for a very "close" approximation. I suspect eventually, but only a rough one is available now or soon.

However if the costs and manufacturing skills are lessened, these plastic weapons will be used on a more widespread basis.

Technology like cell phones and computers are rapidly taken up by kids, usually quicker then their parents. Regulations will be tougher to enforce.

Technology advances faster than anticipated. A double edged sword. These 3D "printers" were basically unknown 10 years ago. Although some large concerns used "Stereolithography" (SLA), since the 1980s's,. called Rapid Prototyping (RP) technologies, their offshoots flourish today.

Give the technology another 10 years and my guess is almost anything including high muzzle velocity weapons will arrive.
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Originally used with plastics and polymers, recent innovations include a type of 3D metal printing as an additive process that uses a laser beam to melt micron layers of metal powder
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Old 07-27-2018, 05:51 PM   #723
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Old 07-27-2018, 06:46 PM   #724
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I admit I am not a gun person and only looked at the problem from an engineering point of view. Gun enthusiasts are naturally looking for a very "close" approximation. I suspect eventually, but only a rough one is available now or soon.

However if the costs and manufacturing skills are lessened, these plastic weapons will be used on a more widespread basis.

Technology like cell phones and computers are rapidly taken up by kids, usually quicker then their parents. Regulations will be tougher to enforce.

Technology advances faster than anticipated. A double edged sword. These 3D "printers" were basically unknown 10 years ago. Although some large concerns used "Stereolithography" (SLA), since the 1980s's,. called Rapid Prototyping (RP) technologies, their offshoots flourish today.

Give the technology another 10 years and my guess is almost anything including high muzzle velocity weapons will arrive.
Yeah I've heard metal printers exist. At that point though you're basically just running a CNC machine are you not?

I think you could make cool things and it seems like an interesting endeavor to "perfect" the 3D printed gun.

Like I said though the materials are what limits the function. Possible? Yes. Practical? No.
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Old 07-28-2018, 01:28 AM   #725
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Yeah I've heard metal printers exist. At that point though you're basically just running a CNC machine are you not?

I think you could make cool things and it seems like an interesting endeavor to "perfect" the 3D printed gun.

Like I said though the materials are what limits the function. Possible? Yes. Practical? No.
CNCs remove material with a cutting tool mounted on an XYZ automated head. Or a laser mounted scanning tool, again removing material from the blank.

3D printers "add" material in successive layers. Obviously plastic is way easier than metal. As you can see from the link, metal 3D printing is here and an active field. Will not be practical until the costs come down. No teenagers fooling around in their basement for a while.

BTW, one of my patents is a non-mechanical aiming laser scanner, able to position the cutting end of a laser along an XYZ grid. Unfortunately we found some theoretical problems preventing full practical implementation, and would up "staking out" limited claims in our patent, and assigned it awaiting those problems to be solved. More complicated than anticipated, but became familiar with some of the technology.
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Old 07-28-2018, 07:25 AM   #726
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CNCs remove material with a cutting tool mounted on an XYZ automated head. Or a laser mounted scanning tool, again removing material from the blank.

3D printers "add" material in successive layers. Obviously plastic is way easier than metal. As you can see from the link, metal 3D printing is here and an active field. Will not be practical until the costs come down. No teenagers fooling around in their basement for a while.

BTW, one of my patents is a non-mechanical aiming laser scanner, able to position the cutting end of a laser along an XYZ grid. Unfortunately we found some theoretical problems preventing full practical implementation, and would up "staking out" limited claims in our patent, and assigned it awaiting those problems to be solved. More complicated than anticipated, but became familiar with some of the technology.



You once again are talking out your ass. You have the way the 3D printer works explained correctly but your description of a CNC is wrong. CNC stands for and everyone can look it up, Computer Numerical Control. A 3D printer is a CNC. Also there are boat loads of CNC cutting machines that don't have an XYZ head on them. One of the most popular, the Vertical Machining Center has a head that only moves on the Z axis. On CNC Lathes unless they are Swiss type, the headstock does not move on the Z-axis at all.
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Old 07-28-2018, 09:22 AM   #727
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You once again are talking out your ass. You have the way the 3D printer works explained correctly but your description of a CNC is wrong. CNC stands for and everyone can look it up, Computer Numerical Control. A 3D printer is a CNC. Also there are boat loads of CNC cutting machines that don't have an XYZ head on them. One of the most popular, the Vertical Machining Center has a head that only moves on the Z axis. On CNC Lathes unless they are Swiss type, the headstock does not move on the Z-axis at all.
You again?

3D printers that are additive use computers. And math. So what? Do you honestly think you could crank a few hand wheels and do anything precisely manually on a 3D printer? Especially not being able to count past any number greater than all your fingers and toes?
Quote:
Computer numerical control (CNC) is the automation of machine tools by means of computers executing pre-programmed sequences of machine control commands. This is in contrast to machines that are manually controlled by hand wheels or levers, or mechanically automated by cams alone.
XYZ are simply the 3 spatial dimensions. Not all machines can do all 3 So what? Maybe you could work manually in 4? or 5? You seem kinda spaced out Einstein.
My point was CNCs remove material and 3D printers add material. Yes you could label 3D printers CNCs but hardly anyone does. So what?

Last edited by hcap; 07-28-2018 at 09:29 AM.
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Old 07-28-2018, 11:38 AM   #728
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Hcap, You defined CNC incorrectly, anyone can Google it to see you are WRONG. Stop deflecting and trying to change the subject, it is just proof how much you talk out your ass. That was my only point.
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Old 07-28-2018, 12:29 PM   #729
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Hcap, You defined CNC incorrectly, anyone can Google it to see you are WRONG. Stop deflecting and trying to change the subject, it is just proof how much you talk out your ass. That was my only point.
I did....
What is incorrect? Schmuck?

Quote:
Computer numerical control (CNC) is the automation of machine tools by means of computers executing pre-programmed sequences of machine control commands. This is in contrast to machines that are manually controlled by hand wheels or levers, or mechanically automated by cams alone.
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Old 07-28-2018, 01:32 PM   #730
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CNCs remove material with a cutting tool mounted on an XYZ automated head. Or a laser mounted scanning tool, again removing material from the blank.
.



This is incorrect, WTF is wrong with you? Instead of saying "Whoops I was wrong" you attack the person that points out your mistakes. You are as delusional as the day is long.
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Old 07-28-2018, 01:37 PM   #731
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Hcap, where did you post that CNC control explanation you just quoted? I also notice you can never seem to use your own words when explaining anything, it is always copy and paste. Do you have any original thoughts?
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Old 07-28-2018, 04:07 PM   #732
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Hcap, where did you post that CNC control explanation you just quoted? I also notice you can never seem to use your own words when explaining anything, it is always copy and paste. Do you have any original thoughts?
Today 01:32 PM
I think your anger is getting to you. The quote directly below is from post #727
The word COMPUTER is linked to Wiki

Quote:
Computer numerical control (CNC) is the automation of machine tools by means of computers executing pre-programmed sequences of machine control commands. This is in contrast to machines that are manually controlled by hand wheels or levers, or mechanically automated by cams alone.

This is exactly the same paragraph I posted #729 Where I asked what is wrong.
Again the word COMPUTER is linked to to the same Wiki page

Quote:
Computer numerical control (CNC) is the automation of machine tools by means of computers executing pre-programmed sequences of machine control commands. This is in contrast to machines that are manually controlled by hand wheels or levers, or mechanically automated by cams alone.
Post #720, 722, and #725 are in my words.
Suggestion: Why don't you calm down?
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Old 07-28-2018, 04:16 PM   #733
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I.D.

I only added to this discussion from an engineering point off view.
We have similar backgrounds. I may have more knowledge from the theoretical. I added to your post in #720 only to expand on how to deal with new possibilities.

I said "Tom is right Re-design the bullets out of a softer material. Plastics"
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Old 07-28-2018, 05:04 PM   #734
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I said "Tom is right
I will save this as a memento, thank you.
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Old 07-28-2018, 05:07 PM   #735
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I will save this as a memento, thank you.
Surprised it took you so long.
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