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Old 08-18-2018, 09:25 PM   #7846
thaskalos
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Who is "us"? God tested Abraham only. Extrapolate much?
You've got no answers and you know it. I pity the God who would ask someone to sacrifice a son as proof of some weird sense of "devotion". And the same goes for raining misfortune upon a believer, as he supposedly did to Job...as some sort of perverted "test of faith". This isn't an "all-powerful and ever-loving God" that you are describing. This is a sadistic trickster...with nothing better to do than to wreak havoc on people's lives.

Fortunately...the God that you believe in exists only as a figment of the imagination of the brainwashed.
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Old 08-18-2018, 09:27 PM   #7847
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It's a two-word answer for heaven's sake...
When was the last time that Boxcar uttered even TWO original words? If it isn't in the bible, then Boxcar can't possibly conceive it...even if it's only two words.
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Old 08-18-2018, 10:05 PM   #7848
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What good you do for others does not atone for your sins. The vast majority of religions in the world subscribe to the "scales of justice" system of "salvation". If you do enough good works and weigh them on one scale and those works outweigh your sins on the other scale, then God becomes indebted to you because you have earned your way into heaven. A truly just God, therefore, in this scheme, is morally obligated to reward you.

But this system isn't taught anywhere in the bible. Another unique biblical teaching...
First, where is your source for the statement that the vast majority of religions subscribe to the scales of justice system of salvation? Catholics believe in the necessity of faith, but also subscribe to the words of James that faith without deeds is dead. This is not a scales of justice system, but a response to the requirement .

James 2:24-26 New International Version (NIV)

24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. 25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.


It absolutely points to the concept that you cannot simply achieve salvation by accepting Jesus as your savior, but you must also practice what God prescribes. Whether you want to argue it does not atone for sins, it is a requirement for entry into heaven. God is not indebted to you; rather you pay your debt to God with faith AND deeds.

This is why we question your form of Christianity. You seem to not understand the importance of deeds, but only the importance of faith. You show that on PA often.
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Old 08-18-2018, 10:11 PM   #7849
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First, where is your source for the statement that the vast majority of religions subscribe to the scales of justice system of salvation? Catholics believe in the necessity of faith, but also subscribe to the words of James that faith without deeds is dead. This is not a scales of justice system, but a response to the requirement .

James 2:24-26 New International Version (NIV)

24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. 25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.


It absolutely points to the concept that you cannot simply achieve salvation by accepting Jesus as your savior, but you must also practice what God prescribes. Whether you want to argue it does not atone for sins, it is a requirement for entry into heaven. God is not indebted to you; rather you pay your debt to God with faith AND deeds.

This is why we question your form of Christianity. You seem to not understand the importance of deeds, but only the importance of faith. You show that on PA often.
Didn't Jesus give certain instructions for his followers to abide by in order to gain entrance into the "heavenly life"? Or did Jesus say: "Just believe in me...and you are in".
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Old 08-19-2018, 12:05 AM   #7850
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Didn't Jesus give certain instructions for his followers to abide by in order to gain entrance into the "heavenly life"? Or did Jesus say: "Just believe in me...and you are in".
Just believe and you are in, Gus, it’s the honor system...no one really comes around checking anymore, at least not since the Inquisition...see you at the Pearly Gates...!
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Old 08-19-2018, 12:14 AM   #7851
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But you just defined Him -- "love, light and wisdom" How do you objectively know that? You just contradicted yourself.
No I did not contradict myself and I speak from experience, not a book. Love by itself created everything and continues to create. It is as boundless as God and is God. You cannot define that which is boundless.

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You may indeed have a god living in you, but it's not the spirit of Christ; for it were you would have a very different attitude about scripture.
We all have God within us. But God is not limited to "scriptures" or being defined by them. Neither is Jesus who proved he was not bound by the "scriptures" in his day when he hung around those you criticize today. Those without the spirit of Christ as you say. Funny how Jesus never had a problem with that but you do. It's clear Jesus preaches the religion of Love and you do not.

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And you accuse me of being clueless because you think God hasn't been defined. Here's a newsflash for you: Jesus Christ himself defined God by his life, ministry, work on the cross and his resurrection!
You see the acts of Jesus and you define God by your interpretation of those acts. This is inaccurate because it is subjective.

I see the Love behind those acts that Jesus did,which make him undefinable and unlimited. The acts flow from what is within.
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Old 08-19-2018, 12:17 AM   #7852
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The external story of Abraham actually being tested,
NEVER HAPPENED.
Man hears voice telling him to kill his son.

Diagnosis: schizophrenia!


How much of the Bible was written by men who heard voices in their heads? How much was written by schizophrenics?
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Old 08-19-2018, 12:56 AM   #7853
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Man hears voice telling him to kill his son.

Diagnosis: schizophrenia!


How much of the Bible was written by men who heard voices in their heads? How much was written by schizophrenics?
An interesting topic is just when and how did consciousness arise...when did we start hearing OUR OWN INNER VOICE...?
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Old 08-19-2018, 01:05 AM   #7854
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An interesting topic is just when and how did consciousness arise...when did we start hearing OUR OWN INNER VOICE...?
Another interesting question: This "inner voice"...we hear it in our heads in the particular language that we happen to speak. In what way would this "inner voice" communicate with us, if we were totally illiterate and didn't speak any language at all?
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Old 08-19-2018, 05:33 AM   #7855
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Man hears voice telling him to kill his son.

Diagnosis: schizophrenia!


How much of the Bible was written by men who heard voices in their heads? How much was written by schizophrenics?
Boxccar seems obsessed with murdering of infants and children in the bible believing ALL instances, and there are many, are god's justice at work. I originally thought Box not having children formed his lack of compassion. That and his inability to think metaphorically ruins any sense of rationality he brings to these discussions.

Like a child hating misanthrope miss interpreting Shakespeare as a made for TV movie of the week..
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Old 08-19-2018, 12:11 PM   #7856
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Another interesting question: This "inner voice"...we hear it in our heads in the particular language that we happen to speak. In what way would this "inner voice" communicate with us, if we were totally illiterate and didn't speak any language at all?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bica...sm_(psychology)

“Jaynes further argues that divination, prayer, and oracles arose during this breakdown period, in an attempt to summon instructions from the "gods" whose voices could no longer be heard.[3] The consultation of special bicamerally operative individuals, or of divination by casting lots and so forth, was a response to this loss, a transitional era depicted, for example, in the book of 1 Samuel. It was also evidenced in children who could communicate with the gods, but as their neurology was set by language and society they gradually lost that ability. Those who continued prophesying, being bicameral according to Jaynes, could be killed.[6][7] Leftovers of the bicameral mind today, according to Jaynes, include religion, hypnosis, possession, schizophrenia, and the general sense of need for external authority in decision-making.“
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Old 08-19-2018, 12:46 PM   #7857
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You exceed in filtering out wisdom,. You succeed at confusing the map for the territory for the 1000th time.

The external story of Abraham actually being tested,
NEVER HAPPENED.

You totally destroy the value of the bibles' themes and teaching story's
Actually, it is you who destroys the bible's message. The ancient original audience would never have understood the story of Abraham the way you put your 21st century spin (filters) on it. Neither would Moses the author of the story.
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Old 08-19-2018, 12:53 PM   #7858
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I don't think you know, and you ducked and pivoted as usual.....Same 'Ol, same 'Ol.
Well...you many "think" what you may. But when you asked for "the" reason why God has not chosen to save all his fallen creatures, then I'm quite certain that you do not know the elementary things of scripture. I can think of several biblical reasons why he determined to save many, while leaving most to perish in their sins.
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Old 08-19-2018, 01:10 PM   #7859
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Actually, it is you who destroys the bible's message. The ancient original audience would never have understood the story of Abraham the way you put your 21st century spin (filters) on it. Neither would Moses the author of the story.
There are arguments to be made people used allegory and metaphor in older cultures.


In classical literature two of the best-known allegories are the Cave in Plato's Republic (Book VII) and the story of the stomach and its members in the speech of Menenius Agrippa (Livy ii. 32).
Among the best-known examples of allegory, Plato's Allegory of the Cave, forms a part of his larger work The Republic. In this allegory, Plato describes a group of people who have lived chained in a cave all of their lives, facing a blank wall (514a–b). The people watch shadows projected on the wall by things passing in front of a fire behind them and begin to ascribe forms to these shadows, using language to identify their world (514c–515a). According to the allegory, the shadows are as close as the prisoners get to viewing reality, until one of them finds his way into the outside world where he sees the actual objects that produced the shadows. He tries to tell the people in the cave of his discovery, but they do not believe him and vehemently resist his efforts to free them so they can see for themselves (516e–518a). This allegory is, on a basic level, about a philosopher who upon finding greater knowledge outside the cave of human understanding, seeks to share it as is his duty, and the foolishness of those who would ignore him because they think themselves educated enough.[8]

People today rarely choose to read things allegorically; however, this was not the case for much of Western history. Allegory was part of a system of interpretation (hermenutics), originally called allęgoria, or "other-speaking" (Greek). This system was fully refined in the Middle Ages and applied principally to the Bible, but it appears as early as ancient Greece and continues through to the modern era, albeit at a reduced rate.

Hey Box (hermenutics), was originally called allęgo
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Old 08-19-2018, 01:15 PM   #7860
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You've got no answers and you know it. I pity the God who would ask someone to sacrifice a son as proof of some weird sense of "devotion". And the same goes for raining misfortune upon a believer, as he supposedly did to Job...as some sort of perverted "test of faith". This isn't an "all-powerful and ever-loving God" that you are describing. This is a sadistic trickster...with nothing better to do than to wreak havoc on people's lives.

Fortunately...the God that you believe in exists only as a figment of the imagination of the brainwashed.
Thank you for validating Isa 55:8-9 (as you have so often have done in the past with other topics). I once stated that one of the major reasons I believe scripture is because its spiritual teaching is so entirely counter-intuitive to the world's wisdom -- so contrary to the way the fallen human race thinks its darkness, that all scripture truly reflects God's infinite otherness. God truly does not think, speak or act the way his fallen creatures do.

Don't you know that believers are to "consider it all joy" when they encounter various trials, for we know that the testing produces endurance and that in turn results in Christians being perfected and made complete (Jas 1:2-3)?

Can you tell us what was the context of God's test to Abraham? Why did he test Abraham?
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