They moved the Mother Goose...yet another change.

[RacingFan1992]

NYRA needs to respect tradion:

In no particular order-

The Mother Goose got moved to the fall meet.

It's place as the middle jewel of the Filly Triple Crown hasn't even been a thing for years.

It's distance was also reduced to 8.5 furlongs in 2010.

The Acorn was also changed when it was lengthened to 8.5 furlongs recently.

The Coaching Club American Oaks was gradually reduced to 9 furlongs and moved to Saratoga but before that it was the final leg of the Filly Triple Crown and 12 furlongs for a period of time.

Chris Everett, Ruffian, Davona Dale, Mom's Command, and Open Mind all won the Filly Triple Crown when the configuration was the Acorn Stakes (8f), Mother Goose (9f), and Coaching Club American Oaks (12f) but now it's just a jumbled up mess of races that doesn't even look like what it once was. Such a shame.

They need to bring back this configuration and toss out those turf triples. Dirt racing in the US is a dying breed.

[the little guy]

What exactly should we do with a race that got downgraded and isn't being well supported? We are trying to save an historically great race. The game is evolving. Adapt or die.

[RacingFan1992]

Originally Posted by the little guy

What exactly should we do with a race that got downgraded and isn't being well supported? We are trying to save an historically great race. The game is evolving. Adapt or die.

It was historically great because of the series. Put the series back together and support the series.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by RacingFan1992

It was historically great because of the series. Put the series back together and support the series.

The series doesn't work. We are trying to find things that can work. It's hard.

That's also untrue. The series was a bit of a novelty and became obsolete quite a while ago. The rise of the KY Oaks severely changed that landscape, along ( of course ) with horses running less frequently.

It's easy to criticize and much harder to find real solutions. We are trying and you are criticizing.

[RacingFan1992]

Originally Posted by the little guy

The series doesn't work. We are trying to find things that can work. It's hard.

That's also untrue. The series was a bit of a novelty and became obsolete quite a while ago. The rise of the KY Oaks severely changed that landscape, along ( of course ) with horses running less frequently.

It's easy to criticize and much harder to find real solutions. We are trying and you are criticizing.

By that logic, the current 5 week Triple for the derby, preakness, and belmont could be classified under that same evaluation of a series.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by RacingFan1992

By that logic, the current 5 week Triple for the derby, preakness, and belmont could be classified under that same evaluation of a series.

That one works....so you're wrong again.

Feel free to give some real solutions that might work.

[RacingFan1992]

Originally Posted by the little guy

That one works....so you're wrong again.

Feel free to give some real solutions that might work.

Real solutions like dismantling and changing a historic group of filly dirt races for a group of newly minted turf triples? It could work...until they start changing it.

The current Triple Crown started as a novelty in the 1930s. It also had its moments when it was dying and becoming obsolete like in the 1980s and trainers are skipping the Preakness because horses are running less frequently.

[kyle r]

The Acorn, CCA Oaks and Alabama aren’t a series of races?

[RacingFan1992]

Originally Posted by kyle r

The Acorn, CCA Oaks and Alabama aren’t a series of races?

That's the new series they created a while back and called it the tiara.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by RacingFan1992

Real solutions like dismantling and changing a historic group of filly dirt races for a group of newly minted turf triples? It could work...until they start changing it.

This is completely incorrect.

[RacingFan1992]

Originally Posted by the little guy

This is completely incorrect.

Okay. I'll word it different. A group of filly dirt races was gradually changed over the years in regards to distance, location, and date on the racing calender. A two new series for turf were created and they had no correlation or connection to one another. Is this more accurate? Tell me where I am wrong?

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by RacingFan1992

Okay. I'll word it different. A group of filly dirt races was gradually changed over the years in regards to distance, location, and date on the racing calender. A two new series for turf were created and they had no correlation or connection to one another. Is this more accurate? Tell me where I am wrong?

The 3YO filly races were changed in order to keep their relevance.
Most of this was successful. We are constantly trying to adapt to the times and the changing landscape. Unfortunately the calendar took a toll on the Mother Goose, just as it has to races in all divisions. That’s the problem with having many high quality races in all the divisions as the foal crops drop significantly and horses make less starts. It’s a numbers game. Frankly it’s a credit to us that we have kept as many of these races as relevant as we have. Hopeful moving the Mother Goose to the Fall will help. It may well not but at least we are proactively trying to not let it die on the vine.

What new races in a created turf series has to do with any of this I have no idea and can’t possibly figure out what you are getting at other than complaining. If you don’t like those races, ignore them.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by RacingFan1992

NYRA needs to respect tradion:

The Mother Goose got moved to the fall meet.

It's place as the middle jewel of the Filly Triple Crown hasn't even been a thing for years.

It's distance was also reduced to 8.5 furlongs in 2010.

The Acorn was also changed when it was lengthened to 8.5 furlongs recently.

The Acorn and Mother Goose are run 2 weeks apart which is not an ideal setup to draw decent-sized fields. In 2022, both races had 4-horse fields.

In the past 2 years, the vast majority of horses in both races have come from races at Churchill Downs on Kentucky Oaks day, usually either the Eight Belles or the Oaks itself, but last year believe it or not, 7 of the 8 horses that ran in the Acorn & Mother Goose combined came from FIVE different races on the Kentucky Oaks card.

Considering the fact that the races are 2 weeks apart, that they each drew 4 horse fields last year, and that the horses have been typically running outside NY (I presume the Comely or whatever is run at Aqueduct on Wood Memorial day in late April is the last major 3yo filly stakes in NY up that point on the calendar), it makes sense to me that they essentially consolidate and "combine" the Acorn & Mother Goose into a single race in May or June (hence extending the Acorn to 8.5f).

It also makes sense that NYRA would not simply let the graded status of the Mother Goose go to waste by dropping the race completely, but rather place it later in the year in hopes of rejuvenating its importance.

Coincidentally, the Mother Goose is named for a filly who's claim to fame is winning the Futurity Stakes against males. Take a look at the ups and downs of that race over the years and suddenly making alterations to the Mother Goose doesn't seem all that out of line.

[BarchCapper]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

Coincidentally, the Mother Goose is named for a filly who's claim to fame is winning the Futurity Stakes against males. Take a look at the ups and downs of that race over the years and suddenly making alterations to the Mother Goose doesn't seem all that out of line.

Nobody thought about moving the ACORN to the FALL?

[dilanesp]

The basic problem here is you can't freeze American racing in amber and preserve the traditional dominance of the New York stakes calendar. Other tracks have the right to create and/or promote their races, and trainers don't run their stakes horses as often anymore.

NYRA has done an excellent job, overall, at retaining their primacy in American racing. But you can't keep running races that trainers don't want to run their horses in. And if you both have (1) more tracks carding competitive races with big purses and (2) horses that run less often, eventually some 100 year old races are going to go by the wayside. It didn't start with the Mother Goose and it won't stop there.