View Poll Results: Mega Barn "Super" Trainers are............... (You can choose more than one answer)
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Good for the game
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13 |
10.00% |
Bad for the game
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81 |
62.31% |
Have "Super Vets" and "Super" vet bills
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47 |
36.15% |
Just work harder than everyone else
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11 |
8.46% |
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09-18-2018, 03:01 PM
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#166
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,789
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09-18-2018, 03:37 PM
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#167
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Asaro
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what does one have to do with the other?
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09-18-2018, 04:01 PM
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#168
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB@BP
what does one have to do with the other?
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09-18-2018, 06:44 PM
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#169
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Asaro
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Oh, you had an had a supposition, I thought it was rooted in some kind of fact.
carry on.
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03-12-2020, 12:31 PM
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#170
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,816
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Another thread that is fun to go back and re-read.
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03-12-2020, 12:40 PM
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#171
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
This race was everything that is wrong with racing in 2018. It is a shame. We should be able to celebrate a 3yo romping to victory over a solid field. Instead we are left to wonder about a trainer who seemingly can't lose while his horses show newfound speed and stamina and huge bets changing the odds at the last minute.
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Probably the best post I've ever made
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03-12-2020, 06:53 PM
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#172
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
There once was a trainer named Servis,
Whose horses made bettors nervous.
He swore they were "streaks"
And they all passed their "leaks."
But he does the game a dis-service.
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And this may be my best ever!
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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03-12-2020, 06:59 PM
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#173
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Asaro
So what do we do with Fig Jelly in the 6th at Belmont. Goes to Servis from Wayne Rice who was at 0% when Fig Jelly was claimed from him.
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Look up Fig Jelly in Equibase - in his last 10 or so races - two MAJOR EB speed ratings out of nowhere, recently. (108 and 116)
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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03-12-2020, 10:53 PM
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#174
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
And this may be my best ever!
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Fabulous, was laughing at it yet again this morning.
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03-13-2020, 11:31 AM
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#175
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 7,325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
Look up Fig Jelly in Equibase - in his last 10 or so races - two MAJOR EB speed ratings out of nowhere, recently. (108 and 116)
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That was one of the problems with him, the jump ups sometimes that you couldn't really predict. It's one thing to know his numbers off the claim, but all too often the pps didn't really matter with him. I Tweeted ( I believe it was the Spring/Summer of 2018 ) that past performances were basically useless for handicapping Jason Servis. I took some heat for it, but it had become painfully obvious that there were frequent random big performances from his runners.
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03-13-2020, 02:23 PM
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#176
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 2,752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the little guy
That was one of the problems with him, the jump ups sometimes that you couldn't really predict. It's one thing to know his numbers off the claim, but all too often the pps didn't really matter with him. I Tweeted ( I believe it was the Spring/Summer of 2018 ) that past performances were basically useless for handicapping Jason Servis. I took some heat for it, but it had become painfully obvious that there were frequent random big performances from his runners.
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TLG: Do you predict a drop in win% by some other high percentage guys across the country based on the events of this week? Obviously, these trainers aren't the only ones in the country doing this very thing. I'd think other trainers who are doing this have to be concerned and change their behavior, even if in the short term. Do you believe that will happen and, if so, doesn't that give us horseplayers a window of opportunity to exploit that at the windows?
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03-13-2020, 02:43 PM
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#177
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 7,325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Track Phantom
TLG: Do you predict a drop in win% by some other high percentage guys across the country based on the events of this week? Obviously, these trainers aren't the only ones in the country doing this very thing. I'd think other trainers who are doing this have to be concerned and change their behavior, even if in the short term. Do you believe that will happen and, if so, doesn't that give us horseplayers a window of opportunity to exploit that at the windows?
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I think people often focus on just win percentage ( for instance, Chad Brown has a high win percentage, and while I realize the irresponsible lunatics like to call him a cheater, given he pretty much never has explosions out of the blue, or great numbers off trainer switches, it doesn't make sense to the rational thinkers among us ) too much. It's more about explosions, big improvements off claim, and somewhat erratic form. It's hard to know, and I am not going to name names here who I suspect, but I will keep an eye on how their horses run, and whether they run at all. Like a lot of people, I wonder if there are more to come, just as like them I have no inside information.
I hope this is the start of cleaning the game up and getting rid of the people that are effectively ruining this game. Only time will tell, but I think it's fair to say it's a good start. I don't play much where Navarro races, but Jason Servis's act has been infuriating me for a LONG time. It would be nice to be able to handicap with at least a minimum of suspicion.
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03-13-2020, 02:49 PM
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#178
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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It's worth noting that the "cheating" problem likely goes beyond simply trainers who are engineering ridiculous form reversals.
In every other sport that has had a PED problem, the effect of PED use was to force basically all the major players to use them. For instance, in track and field, Ben Johnson ran 9.79 in the Olympic Games using PED's (at the time, a ridiculously good performance), but his competitor Carl Lewis, who had a much more rational and explicable career, was also a doper. In cycling, Lance Armstrong doped his way to 6 Tours de France, but the cyclists behind him were also using EPO. In baseball, Barry Bonds and Mark McGwire set home run records on steroids, but many 25 home run guys were doping too.
If horse racing seriously addressed its drug problems, you will find that a lot of the people who aren't engineering dramatic form reversals are also dopers. It's inevitable. There are unlikely to be any "good guys". There certainly weren't in other sports.
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03-13-2020, 03:20 PM
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#179
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 2,752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the little guy
I think people often focus on just win percentage ( for instance, Chad Brown has a high win percentage, and while I realize the irresponsible lunatics like to call him a cheater, given he pretty much never has explosions out of the blue, or great numbers off trainer switches, it doesn't make sense to the rational thinkers among us ) too much. It's more about explosions, big improvements off claim, and somewhat erratic form. It's hard to know, and I am not going to name names here who I suspect, but I will keep an eye on how their horses run, and whether they run at all. Like a lot of people, I wonder if there are more to come, just as like them I have no inside information.
I hope this is the start of cleaning the game up and getting rid of the people that are effectively ruining this game. Only time will tell, but I think it's fair to say it's a good start. I don't play much where Navarro races, but Jason Servis's act has been infuriating me for a LONG time. It would be nice to be able to handicap with at least a minimum of suspicion.
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Thanks TLG. I feel the same way about everything you wrote. The Servis phenomenon was so blatant and brazen that he hardly could've drawn more attention if he'd lit himself on fire. I agree that I hope this is the start of a new era for US-based horse racing.
Some unprecedented times in and out of the horse racing world, that is for sure.
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03-13-2020, 03:27 PM
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#180
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clean money
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
There are unlikely to be any "good guys". There certainly weren't in other sports.
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If an aging "Kareem" played today, he'd have 10lbs more muscle, and hair...
At least there are some good guys in the game. “It is time for the horse-racing industry to unite in support of a national anti-doping regulatory system." - Bob Baffert
Just about time for me to withdraw my little ADW funds, and take a 'hiatus'.
It's possible that the sport will take a break after Saturday's cards, while the Nation battles Covid-19.
I also don't know whether I can trust the doping trainers to continue to dope, or whether they'll run 'flat' horses, or whether they'll double-down...
It's a guessing game right now.
__________________
Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.
Last edited by Robert Fischer; 03-13-2020 at 03:29 PM.
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