Bob Baffert suspended 90 days, fined $7,500, Medina Spirit DQed from Kentucky Derby

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

One of the more interesting reforms that PETA (I know, I know) has proposed every so often is just making all vet records of racehorses public. Obviously, they think that it might both stop some doping and also some running of unsound horses, but it could also be helpful to bettors as well.

..and people that claim horses.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

..and people that claim horses.

Yep.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

One of the more interesting reforms that PETA (I know, I know) has proposed every so often is just making all vet records of racehorses public. Obviously, they think that it might both stop some doping and also some running of unsound horses, but it could also be helpful to bettors as well.

Doing this could also be dangerous because, You can't tell me these records would be 100% honest.
There will never be a sure way system to really know what you are buying though the claim box or at sales of any age.
Where there is a buck to be made, It will be made.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

this game has turned out to be to complex for me!.

i was going to buy a 4 yo never started Florida Bred with 2 partners that toed in. a trainer wants $100 a day in Gulfstream plus all the extras. this post made up my mind. i don't want any part of ownership.

It is impossible to compete where the costs are worth more then the horse,
Yep keep your money in your pocket and a Big Hello to you

[Bustin Stones]

At $100/day, a horse that races 6 times per year in 8 horse fields has to run in $50,000 purses just to cover the trainer fees.

[lamboguy]

Originally Posted by Bustin Stones

At $100/day, a horse that races 6 times per year in 8 horse fields has to run in $50,000 purses just to cover the trainer fees.

you are right, I'm not going to win anyway. and i came to the realization that the game doesn't need or want me in it. the next step is to stop betting, they actually want you to do that and keep your mouth shut so that you can keep the CAW going.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by McSchell_Racing

Doing this could also be dangerous because, You can't tell me these records would be 100% honest.
There will never be a sure way system to really know what you are buying though the claim box or at sales of any age.
Where there is a buck to be made, It will be made.

I am sure it's possible to make them honest. The most honest would just be to have the government or the tracks employ the vets and prohibit private veterinarians from having access to racehorses. But even with private vets, you could have barn surveillance, random checks, etc.

Yes, all this is unthinkable. But part of what's eventually going to save our sport (if it gets saved) is to make the unthinkable thinkable.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I am sure it's possible to make them honest. The most honest would just be to have the government or the tracks employ the vets and prohibit private veterinarians from having access to racehorses. But even with private vets, you could have barn surveillance, random checks, etc.

Yes, all this is unthinkable. But part of what's eventually going to save our sport (if it gets saved) is to make the unthinkable thinkable.

if you have surveillance and vets that are 'public' treating horses for the controlling management rather than the trainers/owners, then you still need honest vets (and honest management). At least you're suggestion would get public vets some wild vacations sponsored by the biggest most power-hungry Machiavellian owners.

We could build 'Biosphere 3' and house the public vets in a glass house to prevent them from being influenced. Or we could build robot vets and house the programmers in glass for surveillance.

cat is out of the bag. every sport uses PEDs. We need better perception of integrity in our broadcast. We need the public to believe it's mostly clean, we need the star trainers and owners and jockeys to be a 'class act' and not douchebags who push overages on minor banned meds and give barn piss or jimson weed, or barnsBalm excuses with a smirk. Guys need to step up the integrity propaganda. We need the cheating and enhancing to continue to be incentivized to win (rather than betting coups with stiffing).

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I am sure it's possible to make them honest. The most honest would just be to have the government or the tracks employ the vets and prohibit private veterinarians from having access to racehorses. But even with private vets, you could have barn surveillance, random checks, etc.

Yes, all this is unthinkable. But part of what's eventually going to save our sport (if it gets saved) is to make the unthinkable thinkable.

Saving our sport has zero to do with stopping the doping of horses.

[Andy Asaro]

Twitter

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by AndyC

Saving our sport has zero to do with stopping the doping of horses.

I think doping hurts us a lot.

The issue isn't what PETA thinks of us. It's what normies think of us. Normies whose predecessors may have gone to the track back in the day, but who have now become more concerned with animal cruelty issues.

And doping is a double whammy- it both reminds people horse racing is full of corrupt cheaters and anglers (a reputation we've always had, all the way back to the days when Damon Runyan used to write about horse racing), AND is a serious animal welfare issue in a way that isn't present in other sports. Steroids in baseball is people hurting themselves; doping horses is people hurting horses. And that just plays very differently, politically.

Honestly, the long term survival of this sport is contingent on a serious commitment to get ALL the doping out of the sport, INCLUDING the game playing on "therapeutic medications".

[Tom]

Originally Posted by AndyC

Saving our sport has zero to do with stopping the doping of horses.

Say what

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I think doping hurts us a lot.

The issue isn't what PETA thinks of us. It's what normies think of us. Normies whose predecessors may have gone to the track back in the day, but who have now become more concerned with animal cruelty issues.

And doping is a double whammy- it both reminds people horse racing is full of corrupt cheaters and anglers (a reputation we've always had, all the way back to the days when Damon Runyan used to write about horse racing), AND is a serious animal welfare issue in a way that isn't present in other sports. Steroids in baseball is people hurting themselves; doping horses is people hurting horses. And that just plays very differently, politically.

Honestly, the long term survival of this sport is contingent on a serious commitment to get ALL the doping out of the sport, INCLUDING the game playing on "therapeutic medications".

To be clear, I am completely against anything any drugs given to horses that would do them harm. Efforts should be made to prevent any abuse of horses.


If all doping of horses stopped today and all races were run clean, would racing be "saved"? Absolutely not. New players would not flock to the races because they are drug-free. The game does not suddenly become easier for all handicappers resulting in massive increases in handle. Racing is a gambling game that in its current form simply cannot compete with the myriad of other gambling opportunities available today.

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by Tom

Say what

I imagine the argument is that horse racing is losing popularity because it's an unattractive gambling option compared to the many others out there. Cleaning up all cheating is great but doesn't change that essential problem.

To play devil's advocate, people didn't think horse racing was "clean" back when the tracks were packed, and people don't think the major sports are "clean" now but don't care because they like watching and betting on them.

[dilanesp]

He's suing to get the Churchill suspension overturned. Chances of success have got to be less than 10%, and even if he wins, he would still need to get the KHRC ruling overturned as well.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/bob-baf...52461?mod=e2tw