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Old 12-08-2021, 03:46 PM   #31
Johnny V
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Originally Posted by metro View Post
I think my first DRF purchase was $1.35. Back then and for a number of years as a regular buyer of their product they had a lot more than just the PPs in them. Charts for one were, and are, an invaluable handicapping tool , now I cannot remember the last time I saw a chart in a DRF.

Daily workouts were a staple as well. Again, cannot remember the last time I saw them in a print edition. Stakes nominations were something I liked to clip and incorporate as well. Gone too.

Of course all of this is available on-line now, if you look for it, but it was nice having it already printed for you.

One thing I can't remember was how many tracks were in the $1.35 version, probably just a couple back then so while some of the content has disappeared the number of tracks with PPs has surely increased.

As far as DRF Bets goes I've tried their wagering platform and just didn't like it, especially mobile. Too cumbersome. The "free" DRFs are nice but I found myself always having to check my wagers to make sure they were crediting me properly and they hardly ever did. It was almost as if it wasn't an automated process but rather someone sitting at a keyboard updating my rewards account. Bait and switch somewhat applies here, don't need that hassle.
I remember when it was the Morning Telegraph on the east coast and they used to print the Stewards rulings about fines and suspensions given out to people in the backstretch for violations they incurred like smoking in the shed row and such. The writing in the articles was top notch. It came in two sections and some guys would just throw the first half away and keep the second half which had the past performances.
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Old 12-08-2021, 03:49 PM   #32
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Racing is at a huge competitive disadvantage in a lot of ways, not least of which is the take. Racetracks need the take just to put on the show. Sports are making money off TV deals, merchandise sales, ticket and parking sales, food sales etc... Gambling is different revenue stream. The take can be, and is, much lower.

That really isn't accurate.

Rather, racing is just collectively too stupid to recognize its own advantage and play to its strengths rather than always playing to its weaknesses.

"psssst... hey, lets get some media coverage... we'll talk about that microscopic drug overage over there... or the fact that some horses die every year... I know, lets declare the downhill turf course unsafe after some idiot jockey move (that happens) on dirt" (you can't make that stupidity up)


As for the print DRF... it's like printed porn:

porn is among the most thriving industries on earth, and yet the only people still paying for printed porn are ancient luddites who, despite their dwindling numbers and dwindling incomes, must foot the largest share of the costs of printed porn to offset the fact that almost nobody else is buying it.

(so the raw cost of print DRF has become mostly an insignificant side factor with the industry going on all around it) (tangentially speaking: "porn is everywhere") (just evolve... )
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Old 12-08-2021, 04:03 PM   #33
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Absolutely the print version of DRF is way overpriced!
but then again, if it had more info, better info, and more accurate info, then I'd be more okay with a $11 price tag. Not even sure what the price is around here? I know they have to be losing all kinds of $ wasting time putting them in grocery and convenience stores, because nobody is buying them. EVER!
It costs too dam much for what it contains.


I am fine with buying a quarterly subscription a few times a year. sometimes the formulator which is nice for the instant ability to watch some race replays. I do like lifetime pp's that you get with the online version.


Anyways, I just commented really just to add this...
If DRF had half a brain, they would try and work out a deal with tracks and off-track parlors to pay more for $ for a higher amount of forms with the understanding that tracks will give the forms for free to anyone wagering consistently.
Just about every casino in Nevada will give you forms for free if you don't put any marks in them. Some charge you a few bucks for them but then will let you return them afterwards for a full refund.
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Old 12-08-2021, 04:22 PM   #34
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[quote=delfman;2771831]
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stupidity runs rampant in these parts.
Let me guess, you are also a steward.
I don’t think the guy is stupid. It could be that he is very selective on which races he is betting on. In any event it just seems like too many tracks and too much action going on in a week. Almost impossible to have a positive ROI, unless of course he’s betting 1.00 show tickets each race lol.
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Old 12-09-2021, 01:42 AM   #35
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I always wondered if they would make more of a profit if the product was priced cheaper. Back in the day, people purchased the Form "everyday," regardless if they played that day or not. That's not gonna happen today at $10 a shot.

Re: DRF Bets & Free PPs

I'm from Illinois and have been with TwinSpires for the longest time. No real problems, and they actually improved their platform the past year or two. Problem now is that Churchill is unfortunately the enemy. I can't support what they have been doing, and especially to my beloved Arlington Park. Sorry, you just don't take that kind of history and throw it in the trashcan.

So, for that reason, I needed a new ADW. I landed at DRF Bets. I too am frustrated with some of the things associated with their platform, but the free PPs are a real bargain. You'll get a free PP credit for every $50 wagered. It's accurate. You'll get the credit you've earned. I've never had a problem ... so far. Been with them since July.
I've not used Twin Spires for several years now. Got shut out on the Derby about 15 years ago when their on-line site crashed and it cost me a five figure score. Was off and on with them since but eventually dropped them.

I'm glad DRF Bets works for you and surely others here. Just seems there always a hoop to jump through when I try them.
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Old 12-09-2021, 01:55 AM   #36
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I remember when it was the Morning Telegraph on the east coast and they used to print the Stewards rulings about fines and suspensions given out to people in the backstretch for violations they incurred like smoking in the shed row and such. The writing in the articles was top notch. It came in two sections and some guys would just throw the first half away and keep the second half which had the past performances.
lol, I got a kick out of those stewards rulings as well! iirc some of the fines were only like $10 bucks or so. Peb used to have his artwork in there too! I saved a bunch of his front pages when they were printed in color.

Back then my friends and I would just throw away the first half of the DRF as well and just hang on to the "guts" as we called it. Wasn't long before I realized how good the rest of the form was and it made me a better handicapper reading it cover to cover.

Now I only buy it a few times a year, usually on the bigger race days. The digital edition is more convenient and usually has the tracks I focus on.
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Old 12-09-2021, 01:16 PM   #37
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Remember in the Saturday edition, they ran all the ads for the latest systems, booklets, gadgets....first thing I looked for!
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Old 12-09-2021, 06:17 PM   #38
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Remember in the Saturday edition, they ran all the ads for the latest systems, booklets, gadgets....first thing I looked for!
I have fond memories of ads for the Tomlinson numbers books (back in the early days when they were very helpful, at least on turf).

Also great memories of the ads for Penn National's World Series of Handicapping qualifiers, and for Delaware Park's weekend tournaments.

Loved picking up that Saturday edition on Friday night before going to work on the "lobster" shift - midnight to 8 AM at Bowne & Co. financial printers, and hoping for a slow night to do some handicapping.

Some of our typesetters had been Morning Telegraph typesetters in the days of hot metal type!
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Old 12-09-2021, 08:20 PM   #39
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I miss the old version of the Daily Racing Program
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Old 12-09-2021, 09:14 PM   #40
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I miss the old version of the Daily Racing Program
me too had pretty well every track possible you can think of

Same with the old Daily Harness Program which was like that too
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Old 12-09-2021, 09:18 PM   #41
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The whole industry needs a new operating plan if it wants to survive.

Basic Past performances should be free and likely needs to be subsidized to get new fans and betters in the door. It's like going to a denny's and the waitress tells you "$11 for the menu."

Then to top it off... Just look at these 5 horse fields they're trying to pass off as graded stakes. Exciting if you like to watch half of a field run

I don't even want to look at this weekends Los Al card for free. Los Al would need to pay me $11.

You really want me to spend my weekend? and bring wads of cash to your place of business, and you can't give me a menu to look at what I'm betting on? It just doesn't make sense
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Old 12-09-2021, 09:38 PM   #42
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I miss the old version of the Daily Racing Program
Does it not still have a ton of tracks in it every day?
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Old 12-09-2021, 09:45 PM   #43
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Don't all ADWs offer free pps if you bet a relatively small amount of money?

I understand the supposed "newbie" argument, but even giving them free pps probably won't help, at least pps as they now exist. Given this is a board theoretically populated by horseplayers, I'm sort of surprised people here don't have access to free pps?

Maybe I'm missing something.
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Old 12-09-2021, 09:51 PM   #44
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Don't all ADWs offer free pps if you bet a relatively small amount of money?

I understand the supposed "newbie" argument, but even giving them free pps probably won't help, at least pps as they now exist. Given this is a board theoretically populated by horseplayers, I'm sort of surprised people here don't have access to free pps?

Maybe I'm missing something.
In order to get free pps from an ADW, you have to make at least one daily minimum-sized bet at the given track. And, from the looks of it...the majority of the "horseplayers" here are either unable, or unwilling, to do even that.
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Old 12-09-2021, 09:54 PM   #45
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In order to get free pps from an ADW, you have to make at least one daily minimum-sized bet at the given track. And, from the looks of it...the majority of the "horseplayers" here are either unable, or unwilling, to do even that.
Thus, DRF is ( apparently ) driving people out of the game.
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