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Old 09-22-2022, 04:39 PM   #76
elysiantraveller
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How about if a couple pages of a disclaimer is included basically saying that we have valued our assets as we consider their worth. Many of these properties are unique and difficult to get comparables on. Please have your lawyers and appraisers do your own evaluations.
Sure there could be some interpretation on the disclosures. That's a fair point but generally speaking the most boilerplate disclosures are going to have affidavits stating the values being used are consistent with other financial records like taxes, other lines, etc. If they aren't the lender itself is creating some exposure for itself.

I don't have a lot to say on this case just I find it hard to believe NY AG brings this suit if they don't think can win.

Also that Trump pleading the 5th a lot makes it significantly harder to prove criminal liability but vis a vis makes it much easier to prove a civil case.
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Old 09-22-2022, 04:43 PM   #77
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I own some storage units, 5 buildings have a total of 100 separate units. This year I am going to pay property taxes on a valuation of $300,000.00. I have been offered $550,000.00 for the same property. The bank said they would loan me $610,000.00 with the property as collateral. What is the value of my property?
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Old 09-22-2022, 05:03 PM   #78
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If I request documents and am provided with false ones you've committed fraud.

Regardless of repayment fraud has been committed.

Regardless of whether or not I did my due diligence fraud was committed.

I'm too lazy to look in to the specifics of what happened here but if tax returns were provided to lenders that differ from the ones provided to the IRS thats as open/shut as it gets.
IF any of which you listed actually occurred, why aren't the "hurt" parties being deposed (assuming they haven't been)? Wouldn't they have to provide the actual documents that were submitted to them as evidence?

Maybe this is the real impetus for the FBI raid of Trump's Mar-a-largo residence. They did take his tax records; probably all of his personal business records, including privileged records, as well.

Whatever! In the grand scheme of things, this whole debacle is clearly petty revenge.
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Old 09-22-2022, 06:34 PM   #79
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IF any of which you listed actually occurred, why aren't the "hurt" parties being deposed (assuming they haven't been)? Wouldn't they have to provide the actual documents that were submitted to them as evidence?

Maybe this is the real impetus for the FBI raid of Trump's Mar-a-largo residence. They did take his tax records; probably all of his personal business records, including privileged records, as well.

Whatever! In the grand scheme of things, this whole debacle is clearly petty revenge.
I would assume most have been deposed. We know for a fact most in Trump's orbit have been.
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Old 09-22-2022, 06:45 PM   #80
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If I request documents and am provided with false ones you've committed fraud.

Regardless of repayment fraud has been committed.

Regardless of whether or not I did my due diligence fraud was committed.

I'm too lazy to look in to the specifics of what happened here but if tax returns were provided to lenders that differ from the ones provided to the IRS thats as open/shut as it gets.

Now I am using the assumption that the loan was paid in full as was supposedly claimed by Donald Trump.

To bring up a case of fraud, doesn't somebody have to be wronged? If Trump took out loans and paid them back as he claims, who was wronged? Are you going to argue that they only received 4% interest instead of 6% interest? Has anyone ever heard of someone commiting fraud on a satisfied debt. Or is this the get Donald Trump rule? By the way, I wonder how many prominent wealthy democrats are out there that may have fudged numbers on some loans. My guess is quite a few.

Two other allegations were that he received benefits of lower insurance premiums and suposedly tax advantages by overstating his assets. Not really understanding the insurance company aspect at all so I won't comment on it. Regarding taxes, isn't that between him and the IRS. Moreover why is NY entitled to 250 million dollars. Are they the new mob or maybe they want to be reimubursed for the amount of money they wasted so they can try and make Trump look bad?

Regarding NY AG bring up a case she doesn't think she can win. They already won. Doesn't matter what the outcome of the case is. When it is the lead story on ABC nightly news that Donald Trump is a fraud that sinks into a lot of heads. You are appearently oblivious to the games that the Demoncrats have been playing since the day he shocked them and became president. To this man's credit he remained incredibly strong throughout it all. Half the folks dishing out the dirt would have killed themselves if they were subjected to half of what he was subjected to.

Last edited by Poindexter; 09-22-2022 at 06:56 PM.
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Old 09-22-2022, 07:02 PM   #81
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I don't have a lot to say on this case just I find it hard to believe NY AG brings this suit if they don't think can win.
Letitia James doesn't have to win this case, it just has to last until the election. She promised to "get Trump" during her last campaign and to date, has failed. Time is running out and she is behind in the polls.
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Old 09-22-2022, 07:32 PM   #82
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If Trump actually did shoot someone in Times Square, BY wouls let him out without bail and let him keep the gun.

That is all you need to know about Letitiia. That and she ran on nailing Trump.

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Old 09-22-2022, 07:55 PM   #83
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Letitia James doesn't have to win this case, it just has to last until the election. She promised to "get Trump" during her last campaign and to date, has failed. Time is running out and she is behind in the polls.
Ding!
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Old 09-22-2022, 08:30 PM   #84
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Now I am using the assumption that the loan was paid in full as was supposedly claimed by Donald Trump.
I'm going to bow out of this conversation because I don't want to spend a ton of time on it but to give you a brief response;

What happens to the loans is largely irrelevant. Trump may claim he paid them and maybe he did maybe he didn't... doesnt matter... the fraud is the act prior to the loan being executed if that occurred.

Simple non-finance example; I claim to be a doctor but I'm not. I Tell you I'm a doctor and then perform a surgery. No matter the outcome of the surgery, live, die, heal, get sicker... you can sue the hell out of me because I lied to you.

Fraud works on the same principles and even if the lenders don't bring the suit the state reserves the right to bring them as well. At least they could in Michigan and finance is significantly more regulated in New York.
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Old 09-22-2022, 08:36 PM   #85
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I donít know if thatís true or not. The crime is that Trump misrepresented the value of his properties in order to obtain larger loans at more favorable rates. That is illegal. As for the banks doing due diligence, if Trump was a favored customer they may have just taken his word-dumb as that may be.
You have zero knowledge about big money and banks, most big bank deals are done in the last couple of months at the end of the year. Much can be said about the sweetheart deals put together by the banker just to move a larger note. There is big trouble for the people who do not move enough money. Banks are the absolute last sector that I feel sorry for.
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Old 09-22-2022, 10:08 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by elysiantraveller View Post
I'm going to bow out of this conversation because I don't want to spend a ton of time on it but to give you a brief response;

What happens to the loans is largely irrelevant. Trump may claim he paid them and maybe he did maybe he didn't... doesnt matter... the fraud is the act prior to the loan being executed if that occurred.

Simple non-finance example; I claim to be a doctor but I'm not. I Tell you I'm a doctor and then perform a surgery. No matter the outcome of the surgery, live, die, heal, get sicker... you can sue the hell out of me because I lied to you.

Fraud works on the same principles and even if the lenders don't bring the suit the state reserves the right to bring them as well. At least they could in Michigan and finance is significantly more regulated in New York.
Youíre exactly right. The fraud occurs at application and signing.

For you Bravo fans, this is exactly what put Teresa Juidice and her Husband in prison.
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Old 09-22-2022, 10:28 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by elysiantraveller View Post
I'm going to bow out of this conversation because I don't want to spend a ton of time on it but to give you a brief response;

What happens to the loans is largely irrelevant. Trump may claim he paid them and maybe he did maybe he didn't... doesnt matter... the fraud is the act prior to the loan being executed if that occurred.

Simple non-finance example; I claim to be a doctor but I'm not. I Tell you I'm a doctor and then perform a surgery. No matter the outcome of the surgery, live, die, heal, get sicker... you can sue the hell out of me because I lied to you.

Fraud works on the same principles and even if the lenders don't bring the suit the state reserves the right to bring them as well. At least they could in Michigan and finance is significantly more regulated in New York.
Bottom line: no bank, most especially at the level of the types of loans that someone like mega-builder Trump would be requesting, would not cross every *t* and dot every *i* when making the deal, and of all banks, certainly not a bank like Deutsche Bank (The bank's network spans 58 countries with a large presence in Europe, the Americas, and Asia. Wikipedia).

How many banks have ever sued Trump for fraud? Zero!

AG James can attempt to pull off this persecution because NY has a law on the books that allows her intervene at her discretion, even when no one else is interested. This is not the case in all states. She is clearly a bitter bitch with an agenda!

Bottom-bottom line...it is stupid to believe that this is anything more than just another gross witch-hunt. Will you ever learn??
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Old 09-22-2022, 10:30 PM   #88
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Youíre exactly right. The fraud occurs at application and signing.

For you Bravo fans, this is exactly what put Teresa Juidice and her Husband in prison.
Who initiated the law suit?

I don't see the comparison...

Why Teresa and Joe Giudice Are Being Sent to Jail
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Old 09-22-2022, 10:43 PM   #89
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I don't have a lot to say on this case just I find it hard to believe NY AG brings this suit if they don't think can win.
This was her campaign advertisement 4 years ago. What do they call it when they convict someone before they find a crime?

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Old 09-22-2022, 10:46 PM   #90
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This was her campaign advertisement 4 years ago. What do they call it when they convict someone before they find a crime?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1yj0NKSsuU
She sounds like a domestic terrorist. I think Biden said something about that.
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