Will Racing Change

[098poi]

Originally Posted by jay68802

Interesting notes, at least i think so. Looking at trainers and what they use.

....Drug................#Voil.......use........... ......................Wins....N/A
Phenylbutazone.......23...Anti-inflamatory.......................10....8
Flunixin..................11...Anti-inflamatory.........................6....3
Clenbuterol.............10...steroid.............. ........................7....2
Methylprednisolone...6...Anti-inflamatory..........................3....1
Dexamethasone .......5...Anti-inflamatory, adrenalglands....2....2
Methocarbamol.........4...nervous system depresant...........2....0
Ketaprophen............3....Anti-inflamatory.........................0....1
Carbon Dioxide.........3................................. ..................0....2
Oxycodone...............2....pain................. ........................2....1
Naproxen.................2....Anti-inflamatory........................1.....0
Bute........................2....pain............. ............................2....0
Boldenone................2....steroid............. ........................2....0
Syringes..................4
Fraudulent workout...4
Xylazine...................1
Stanozolol................1
Sromazine Sulfoxide..1
Sildenafil..................1
Ranitidine.................1
Propantheline............1
Prednisone...............1
Oxypheny.................1
Oxyphenbutazone.....1
Oxymorphone...........1
Hydroxyethyl............1
Guaifenesin..............1
Furosemide..............1
Fluphenazine............1
Dimethyl Sulfoxide....1
Desmethylsidenafil....1
Desmethylpyrilamine.1
Dermorphin..............1
Dembrexine.............1
Carisoprodol.............1
Bethamethasone......1
Acepromazine..........1

The # of wins is surprising,

The drug, # of violations, the drugs use, # of wins, and the # of times the horses finish position was not mentioned. These are for only trainers that last name start with A, and I went until I had 100 violations. Some had overages for more than 1 drug. Notice the # of cases for Syringes and fraudulent works.

The best one was a trainer who got fined for $4000.00, horse finished 11th, and then wrote a bad check to the racing authority for the fine.

The racing community needs to pull their head out of the sand, and face their problem.

That's great. Whenever you feel like you've hit bottom just think of this guy. Gives you hope.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

Boiling your post down to the above quoted single sentence:

In my opinion you have identified the root cause behind 99.9% of the game's problems.


-jp

.

This is why I am in favor of federal regulations of the game.
IF they can't see that they need a bonding third party, then let them fall under the gov - as bad as that is, it is better than letting the fox watch the chicken coop.

[rastajenk]

Couple of quotes from the original linked piece:

I have no fear that a move to bring all graded racing under the umbrella of an enterprise that would put the horse first would be enacted.

Would it be a fight? Would tempers flare? You betcha. However, the progressive forces would prevail in the end.

Opponents of the legislation, as politicians are wont to do, try to demonize and belittle proponents of bill by employing the same tactics Right Wing politicians use to deride Liberals for their backing of initiatives to protect the environment.

Sorry Barry, you lost me with that attitude. Progs ruin nearly everything, and I have no confidence that they will adjust the future fate of racing in an upward manner.

[Ruffian1]

Originally Posted by Tom

This is why I am in favor of federal regulations of the game.
IF they can't see that they need a bonding third party, then let them fall under the gov - as bad as that is, it is better than letting the fox watch the chicken coop.

Federal government is a joke when it comes to racing. I had a case heard in front of a judge and the guy didn't even attempt to read the rules of racing. He had no idea what he was even talking about. We had to appeal a slam dunk case to have them get it right.
There are legitimate former and current race track officials, trainers, jocks etc. that are of the highest standards. Those people are not foxes watching a chicken coop. Those people don't eat the chickens, they are the ones that get pissed off when other foxes do.
Pay them a high wage and the problem is solved. It is hard to make a solid income at the track as an official or a trainer. Some trainers do, but the majority do not. Pay them well and hire above board quality people. Problem solved. But like anything else seemingly at the track, it will never happen. It makes too much sense and it's too easy to implement.

[jay68802]

Either way you look at this, the current system is not working. I know I used a small sample, but the fact that steroids, syringes and work outs are mentioned this many times is, to me, the most disturbing. It really shows that cheating is not that isolated of a instance. This way of winning is planned and the people are doing it willingly. The number of times they are not getting caught must outweigh the number of times that they fail, and the "penalty".

Steroids, no matter what is said, have NOT been banned. It seems to me that horse racing said "We are banning performance enhancing steroids" to the public, but turned to the horsemen and said " "but not for "medical" reasons."

The cheating affects a number of honest trainers and owners. But they are afforded some level of protection in that the purses are redistributed if someone is caught. Look at the number of times false works are reported. The cheating is being done not only for the purse, but also to cash a bet. The group that is cheated the most, is the betting customer. They have 0 recourse to recover their losses.

I do not care if the group that is given this responsibility is left wing, right wing, lesbian, or deaf. Horse racing needs to rid itself of this monster that they have swept under the carpet.

[jay68802]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...n-should-begin

The last part of the article has two points worth mentioning. One states that it is a known fact, that if there is a way around a regulation, it will be used. The other shows just how fractured the sport is when it comes to regulations. A bunch of different states, all with their own regulations, and all trying to enforce them by themselves. The problem is right in front of them, and one obvious solution is to create one organization, to do all of this. If all states contributed, the cost would be spread out, and might even be cheaper than what they are doing now.

[Ruffian1]

Originally Posted by jay68802

Either way you look at this, the current system is not working. I know I used a small sample, but the fact that steroids, syringes and work outs are mentioned this many times is, to me, the most disturbing. It really shows that cheating is not that isolated of a instance. This way of winning is planned and the people are doing it willingly. The number of times they are not getting caught must outweigh the number of times that they fail, and the "penalty".

Steroids, no matter what is said, have NOT been banned. It seems to me that horse racing said "We are banning performance enhancing steroids" to the public, but turned to the horsemen and said " "but not for "medical" reasons."

The cheating affects a number of honest trainers and owners. But they are afforded some level of protection in that the purses are redistributed if someone is caught. Look at the number of times false works are reported. The cheating is being done not only for the purse, but also to cash a bet. The group that is cheated the most, is the betting customer. They have 0 recourse to recover their losses.

I do not care if the group that is given this responsibility is left wing, right wing, lesbian, or deaf. Horse racing needs to rid itself of this monster that they have swept under the carpet.

Never has worked to my knowledge. So many easy fixes to this Jay, that it would make your head spin.
Just like the hay and oats rally cry from NY back in the day, when it was anything but, the steroids ban was a PR move with the back door wide open.

The workout rules have a fatal flaw in them. It states that ANY horse that does not run for 30 days( maybe different somewhere) MUST show a work. Well, I ran horses that did not work within those 30 days. At least not fast enough to be allowed to be published. Think about that. I have a horse go 15's for a 7/8's of a mile then go 13 and gallop out very well. That's 3/8ths in 43 or a 1/2 in 58. When I was training that did not qualify for a published work. So what do I do. The entry clerk would say we need a published work. My answer was, put in whatever you want because I am not going to lie about a work and be held responsible. I refused. Yes, when it came to being forced to lie about something to run, I was a dick. Mainly because I was trying to prove a point that the rules about how fast a horse must go was stupid and therefore I refused to make up a time. Long story short, my horses ran and whatever work appeared, someone else generated it. Not me.

I know I throw easy fix around but Jay, the rules are in place and most of them are there for the customers protection. But sometimes other rules, like the one I just mentioned screw things up. This is indeed easy to fix. Just takes a group of well paid former professionals with no vested interest, that understands the game , and whose sole interest is to help the game get back to legitimate in the eyes of the customers to do so. Could you imagine what a federal agency would do with that dilemma?
And I have a serious question. What would customers say if they saw 5/8ths in 1:12 at Laurel or Pimlico and the horse won with it's mouth open ?

[jay68802]

First, I learn something every day. A work out has to be x fast to be published? Did not know that. I just posted about works in another thread. To me, the fact that a horse worked is the most important factor. A 4 in :50 work for Baffert at Santa Anita is slow, a 4 in :50 work for Broberg at Delta is fast. Publish the work, let the handicapper decide. My understanding is you trained on the East coast. A area that I did not concentrate on, so I would have a hard time judging a work there. If it was at Delta, Fairgrounds, or Evd and I knew who you were. I would be able to give a judgment. If that work was for a horse trained by Henry Johnson, and it won, I would not bat a eye. I also tend to agree, involving the government is not the best thing to do, and probably the worst thing that could happen. Horse racing is not a state by state sport anymore. By allowing horses to ship to a different state, horse racing acknowledges this. But it is run that way. Drug testing, work outs, timing issues, and a lot of administrative issues regarding who can train, or own a horse, could be done by one group on a national level. And be done a lot more effectively than it is done now. Getting the different states and organizations to agree an anything would be a accomplishment. But getting the different organizations to see that involving the government is the worst that could happen, and organizing on a national level by themselves is the best thing for everyone involved, might be the way to go.

[Ruffian1]

Originally Posted by jay68802

First, I learn something every day. A work out has to be x fast to be published? Did not know that. I just posted about works in another thread. To me, the fact that a horse worked is the most important factor. A 4 in :50 work for Baffert at Santa Anita is slow, a 4 in :50 work for Broberg at Delta is fast. Publish the work, let the handicapper decide. My understanding is you trained on the East coast. A area that I did not concentrate on, so I would have a hard time judging a work there. If it was at Delta, Fairgrounds, or Evd and I knew who you were. I would be able to give a judgment. If that work was for a horse trained by Henry Johnson, and it won, I would not bat a eye. I also tend to agree, involving the government is not the best thing to do, and probably the worst thing that could happen. Horse racing is not a state by state sport anymore. By allowing horses to ship to a different state, horse racing acknowledges this. But it is run that way. Drug testing, work outs, timing issues, and a lot of administrative issues regarding who can train, or own a horse, could be done by one group on a national level. And be done a lot more effectively than it is done now. Getting the different states and organizations to agree an anything would be a accomplishment. But getting the different organizations to see that involving the government is the worst that could happen, and organizing on a national level by themselves is the best thing for everyone involved, might be the way to go.

Both Laurel and Pimlico can be fast enough to work 5/8's in a minute or a little quicker with a good horse who wants to work fast. Lots of 5/8's in 1:01's and 1:02s typically.
That rule is why you don't see 5/8ths in 1:12.

I claimed a horse that hated to work and damn near bolted or refused if you made him. 1/8's in 15 was his key. He never won much with the previous trainer that shipped him all over , different rider every time , plenty of works and sprinted.
I ran him back short, still figuring him out and he ran last. Started training him without works, cut his blinkers back and ran him long. He won 8 in a row. My job was to make the horse happy which my team did . Not make the entry clerks happy which I did not.
Over the years I did that quite a bit, especially with old claimers . I drove a couple of those poor entry clerks crazy. Lol.

[jay68802]

I brought up Henry Johnson for the same reason. I was trying to make heads or tails on his works. It took a while but finally figured he was just trying anything that might improve the horse. In my data base I have a work for him at Delta Downs that is 7f in 1:43. Horse won his race at 5f.

[onefast99]

So not one post about the vets? Who has the easiest access to the illegal drugs that are given to the horses? The vets do. How about the guys who are repeat offenders wouldn’t a racing commission be able to gain access to the drug orders as it was pointed out in the Murray Rojas trial the drugs were easily obtained and a vet lost his license to practice. If you think every trainer and owner who cheats knows what drugs to use you are dead wrong the vets are the ones that Concoct with a drug lab drugs that are not detected in a horses system we have discussed this many times and we always come to the same conclusion and Someone has to take the lead to clean up this sport this is not similar to UFC fighting or baseball or any other sport this is a sport where there are plenty of people with the wherewithal to take the lead and make it better for all involved. The penalties associated with cheating are minimal and that is where you need to start no more giving guys like Navarro three or four chances. Send a message that will resonate its worth a try!

[Tom]

The Vets are the dirty rotten inner core.
ANY vvet caught doping should be banned for life on the FIRST offense.

[jay68802]

It's a four headed monster. The racing authority that makes and enforces the rules, the owners, trainers, and the vets. You can argue for all of them.

[Ruffian1]

Originally Posted by onefast99

So not one post about the vets? Who has the easiest access to the illegal drugs that are given to the horses? The vets do. How about the guys who are repeat offenders wouldn’t a racing commission be able to gain access to the drug orders as it was pointed out in the Murray Rojas trial the drugs were easily obtained and a vet lost his license to practice. If you think every trainer and owner who cheats knows what drugs to use you are dead wrong the vets are the ones that Concoct with a drug lab drugs that are not detected in a horses system we have discussed this many times and we always come to the same conclusion and Someone has to take the lead to clean up this sport this is not similar to UFC fighting or baseball or any other sport this is a sport where there are plenty of people with the wherewithal to take the lead and make it better for all involved. The penalties associated with cheating are minimal and that is where you need to start no more giving guys like Navarro three or four chances. Send a message that will resonate its worth a try!

Great post.

You are absolutely right.

I cannot speak for other states as I stabled in only two for a full meet over more than one year. In both of those states, it was well known which vets or vet groups were of the highest standards and which ones were not of that caliber. I was fired by an owner once because I refused to use a certain vet to treat his horses. The vets I used within a group were of the highest standards the game can possibly have. They were outstanding in their field, honest to a fault and would NEVER consider breaking rules. They asked out of working for more than one trainer over the years because they were asked to do things that in their minds were not ethical. I consider them my friends to this day.
If the game was filled with vets like I had the pleasure of working with, it would be in a much better place. And let me say this as well as hopefully it will help. Again, it is only two states but I am in no way saying every other vet but my vets were dirty. Not at all. That's not close to true. But, there were a couple over the years that clearly skirted around the rules and IMO should have been looked into by the proper authorities.