Bring Dutrow Back

[Ruffian1]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

What amazes me is a guy like Baffert has 7 or 8 die of heart related issues within 18 months, is found to have been giving them Thyro-L for no good reason and gets the whole California establishment, mainly the CHRB to cover up for him. And then he is able to win a Triple Crown. Dutrow would have been sent to a black site, tortured and killed (a little over the top) under the same conditions because of his personality and not being too big to fail.

There are sham investigations that go both ways. Sham to cover up and sham to convict in Dutrows case. 10 years? No way.

Well said Andy.

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

What amazes me is a guy like Baffert has 7 or 8 die of heart related issues within 18 months, is found to have been giving them Thyro-L for no good reason and gets the whole California establishment, mainly the CHRB to cover up for him. And then he is able to win a Triple Crown. Dutrow would have been sent to a black site, tortured and killed (a little over the top) under the same conditions because of his personality and not being too big to fail.

There are sham investigations that go both ways. Sham to cover up and sham to convict in Dutrows case. 10 years? No way.

Just wanted to add a question to the post.

If the starting offensive line for the Super Bowl Champs all died of heart related issues in an 18 month period and had been all given the same supplement for no apparent reason what would happen?

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

Thanks SG and Spaulding. I've heard over and over about how Dutrow took such great care of his horses, as if he was a rarity in that regard and it should be a mitigating factor. So it's not true after all.

What's not true? That he didn't take EXCELLENT care of his horses?

Oh yes he did.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

That's quite a smug post, and I have no idea why. Say he took such great care if you want, but I guarantee that catastrophic breakdown rate proves different because I know the stats of some others, and it's not 1+ a year. I'm not saying he was terrible, but this often repeated idea that he took such great care, as if it was at a rare level to make it a mitigating factor, isn't true.

Bullshit. You have trainers out there at the top of anyone's list year after year, having horses die on them for reasons that are VERY suspicious...I'm talking the top trainers on both coasts...you guys know exactly who I'm talking about...and these guys are winning Eclipse awards and getting praised by most (well, one is at least...the other has kind of fallen out of favor with most knowledgeable folks)...

But kick Dutrow out for 10 years because he had all these violations, most of them due to poor record keeping and management, not illegal drugs...oh, and because he had a big mouth and talked about steroids during the triple crown...which I guess kind of ****ed it up for a lot of other trainers...just remember, the steroids he was talking about were perfectly LEGAL back when he was talking about them.

It's just so ****ing ridiculous that he was kicked out for 10 years, while every other yahoo with way more serious MULTIPLE violations still have their license.

And anyone who says otherwise is clueless.

[biggestal99]

We need to rid the sport of juicers.

Dutrow was one of them.

More should be shown the door.

Training horses for a living is a priveledge not a right.

Allan (whoa member)

[Denny]

Didn't read all the comments because i think many of them are BS and i had to say something.

Many of you guys are way off base and out of your league on this matter.

The guy was railroaded and given way too stiff of a penalty for what he did.

A commission guy was looking to make for a name for himself with the harshest penalty possible.

Dutrow has done 5 years for what many other trainers have gotten hardly anything for doing.

NOT A SINGLE HORSE Dutrow trained died in a race - in all those years.

Got this info from a great series of articles written a couple years ago by John Pricci of HRI.

[Baffert KILLED horses and got a slap on the wrist, as someone pointed out].

Roman's is RIGHT on this and some of you guys need to learn the facts before judging.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by biggestal99

We need to rid the sport of juicers.

Dutrow was one of them.

Clueless. Unless by juicer, you mean using legal medications.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by Ruffian1

Call him what you will but know that when you call him a trainer that cheated with drugs and needles, you are nowhere close to the truth. You are simply wrong.

From 2003 until the time of his 10-year ban, Dutrow had been cited, fined, and/or suspended for positive tests for:

(1) mepivicaine - a local anesthetic
(2) clenbuterol - a bronchodilator with the potential to improve performance
(3) butorphanol - an opioid used to control moderate to severe pain

In addition, during a barn search at Aqueduct, investigators found multiple loaded syringes containing xylazine. Xylazine is a sedative that also imparts pain relief and muscle relaxation.

It is expressly forbidden in the rules of NY racing for anyone other licensed veterinarians to possess equipment that may be used for hypodermic injection, never mind pre-loaded equipment as in this case.

In addition, Dutrow admitted to using anabolic steroids on his horses on a monthly basis. That's not to say it was illegal at the time, but it does call into question the claim that his success was based on some sort of "talent" to train horses.

[PaceAdvantage]

So you're saying Dutrow was nothing but a chemist. With not even above-average talent at training and caring for racehorses.

Oy vey.

[Ruffian1]

Originally Posted by biggestal99

We need to rid the sport of juicers.

Dutrow was one of them.

More should be shown the door.

Training horses for a living is a priveledge not a right.

Allan (whoa member)

Juicer ?

Please tell me about the illegal "juice" he used.

[Ruffian1]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

From 2003 until the time of his 10-year ban, Dutrow had been cited, fined, and/or suspended for positive tests for:

(1) mepivicaine - a local anesthetic
(2) clenbuterol - a bronchodilator with the potential to improve performance
(3) butorphanol - an opioid used to control moderate to severe pain

In addition, during a barn search at Aqueduct, investigators found multiple loaded syringes containing xylazine. Xylazine is a sedative that also imparts pain relief and muscle relaxation.

It is expressly forbidden in the rules of NY racing for anyone other licensed veterinarians to possess equipment that may be used for hypodermic injection, never mind pre-loaded equipment as in this case.

In addition, Dutrow admitted to using anabolic steroids on his horses on a monthly basis. That's not to say it was illegal at the time, but it does call into question the claim that his success was based on some sort of "talent" to train horses.

I think it is well known that the syringes were a plant job. I certainly do.

I stand behind everything I said.

And good job mocking the word "talent."

So important to do these things when trying to have a civil discussion.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

So you're saying Dutrow was nothing but a chemist. With not even above-average talent at training and caring for racehorses.

I didn't come close to remotely saying that.

Another poster said it was "simply wrong" and "nowhere close to the truth" that Dutrow cheated with "drugs and needles".

My post completely refuted that (i.e, the poster's statement was Bullshit).

I didn't make any assertion with respect to the care of his horses.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

I didn't come close to remotely saying that.

Another poster said it was "simply wrong" and "nowhere close to the truth" that Dutrow cheated with "drugs and needles".

My post completely refuted that (i.e, the poster's statement was Bullshit).

I didn't make any assertion with respect to the care of his horses.

Most people of sound mind would interpret:

"but it does call into question the claim that his success was based on some sort of "talent" to train horses."

exactly as I interpreted it...so yes, you came more than remotely close to saying that.

[jay68802]

Dutrow's drug violations are well documented. I did a quick look and found 4 trainers that have been suspended for the use of the same three drugs listed above. All received a 30 day or less suspension. All the trainers have multiple violations.

He took care of his horses, should not really be a issue. I think most trainers take pretty good care of the horses under their care.

A trainer can have a severe injury in his first race or could not have one for 500 races. The injuries are going to happen, when is any ones guess.

If Romans would be able to help in getting his suspension reduced, IMO, OK.
If it is not reduced, IMO, OK.

He has been gone for five years, that is a healthy punishment.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Most people of sound mind would interpret:

"but it does call into question the claim that his success was based on some sort of "talent" to train horses."

exactly as I interpreted it...so yes, you came more than remotely close to saying that.

I suppose so...if by "sound" you mean "histrionic" or "given to hyperbole".

That aside, what do you make of those opoids, nerve blocking agents, etc.?