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01-04-2018, 10:35 AM
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#106
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonmouthParkJoe
Well this made for an interesting read on a snowy morning here in the northeast.
"Fake" or "inflated", $2 wagered on a race is still $2 wagered on a race and at its most basic level, handle.
Top line its all the same, bottom line is a different story.
A discussion of margins would be more fruitful, but that information is not exactly readily available. A comparison of net revenue margins on handle across race tracks/companies and their respective "blend" would shine some light on things. Not all rebates are created equal and a lot depends on their client mix.
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If additional handle does not contribute to purses paid to horsemen than it's "phoney." GP was able to dramatically increase its handle , yet its purse structure has not increased much; therefore, its either bogus or Stronach interests are somehow able to befool horsemen.
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01-04-2018, 10:54 AM
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#107
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,871
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The only statistic I care about is how much do I get paid.
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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01-04-2018, 01:30 PM
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#108
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 876
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linrom1
If additional handle does not contribute to purses paid to horsemen than it's "phoney." GP was able to dramatically increase its handle , yet its purse structure has not increased much; therefore, its either bogus or Stronach interests are somehow able to befool horsemen.
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Any idea of what their purse account looks like? I have no idea, but I would imagine they could have been in an overpayment situation prior to the increase in hande.
Are they running more races compared to before? Stakes boosted? The purse money is going to purses, how it is distributed I dont know since I do not follow Florida.
Comparing handle to how the purse money is distributed is a bit much. Handle is a wager. If it is a person, robot, or my dog Charlie on his Ipad placing the bet, it doesnt matter. Trying to say it is phoney or fake because the margins are low or you dont see where the purse money is a little off.
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01-04-2018, 01:43 PM
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#109
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonmouthParkJoe
Any idea of what their purse account looks like? I have no idea, but I would imagine they could have been in an overpayment situation prior to the increase in hande.
Are they running more races compared to before? Stakes boosted? The purse money is going to purses, how it is distributed I dont know since I do not follow Florida.
Comparing handle to how the purse money is distributed is a bit much. Handle is a wager. If it is a person, robot, or my dog Charlie on his Ipad placing the bet, it doesnt matter. Trying to say it is phoney or fake because the margins are low or you dont see where the purse money is a little off.
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Maybe a little off, but it was to make a point. It was stated Gulfstream is up more than everyone else is so bettors must not care about their shenanigans. Like most blanket statements in racing, this doesn't tell the whole story. If other tracks were using the same pricing model as Gulfstream, I'm sure their handle would be up as well. But there bottom line would not be. If pushed to the extreme, a track could take bets and knowingly LOSE money on the bets and still report this is handle.
So my point was saying handle is up, or good, by itself doesn't mean much at all. That is why I said it is phony or fake or whatever word I used. Just like the purse of the Pegasus is fake. You have to dig a little deeper than just reading press releases. I'm not sure why people are anxious to defend a track that is currently outright lying about the distance of its races, but whatever. That is horseplayers for you.
Last edited by cj; 01-04-2018 at 01:45 PM.
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01-04-2018, 02:32 PM
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#110
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 621
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Has anybody come across a head-on replay of the jockey falling and costing someone the Rainbow 6.
I still would like to see what made the horse veer ever so sharply. He'd already been struck several times before without reacting.
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01-04-2018, 02:37 PM
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#111
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 621
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The Rainbow is now over 1.1 million.
There's something more to this story and I think Gulf is hiding it by not showing the complete head-on replay to the public.
But, maybe that's just me thinking that.
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01-04-2018, 03:41 PM
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#112
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny
Has anybody come across a head-on replay of the jockey falling and costing someone the Rainbow 6.
I still would like to see what made the horse veer ever so sharply. He'd already been struck several times before without reacting.
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I've seen it. It was the whip. I'm all for a good conspiracy theory, but in this case there's nothing here unless you think the horse was also in on it.
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01-04-2018, 05:03 PM
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#113
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny
The Rainbow is now over 1.1 million.
There's something more to this story and I think Gulf is hiding it by not showing the complete head-on replay to the public.
But, maybe that's just me thinking that.
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We had a guy at our track yesterday play all/all/all/all/all/all in the Rainbow. Think it was 14,800. Tough day at the track when you hit the P6 and lose 10k.
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01-04-2018, 05:29 PM
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#114
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
I've seen it. It was the whip. I'm all for a good conspiracy theory, but in this case there's nothing here unless you think the horse was also in on it.
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I don't know CJ the horse isn't talking I assume he has lawyered up..
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01-04-2018, 05:31 PM
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#115
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,089
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
I've seen it. It was the whip. I'm all for a good conspiracy theory, but in this case there's nothing here unless you think the horse was also in on it.
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Was the whip and then a bad step by the horse. I had the eventual winner so I was 'happy' (once I heard there were no injuries involved). But you can see clearly the horse takes a strange step to the side. At that speed, the jockey gets thrown - he is not expecting that and it is too fast/sudden to compensate. Have also seen it before.
A jockey would never purposefully fall off with a dozen horses coming behind him...might mean he dies (kick to the head etc which has happened).
Sometimes i think we forget they are horses not machines.
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01-04-2018, 06:34 PM
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#116
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 621
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No jock would jump off like that. I wasn't trying to imply he did.
I was just wondering if something else spooked the horse.
Thanks.
He was actually lucky to be so far ahead when he fell. The others may have had a little more time to react. (Though he still did hurt.)
Not like what happened to Mike Venezia. He went off right in front of and next to Robbie's horse and there was no chance to avoid him.
I was watching with my binoculars from the 2nd floor of the grandstand and can still see it now in my mind.
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01-04-2018, 06:57 PM
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#117
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdhanover
Was the whip and then a bad step by the horse. I had the eventual winner so I was 'happy' (once I heard there were no injuries involved). But you can see clearly the horse takes a strange step to the side. At that speed, the jockey gets thrown - he is not expecting that and it is too fast/sudden to compensate. Have also seen it before.
A jockey would never purposefully fall off with a dozen horses coming behind him...might mean he dies (kick to the head etc which has happened).
Sometimes i think we forget they are horses not machines.
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He actually tried to stay on by holding onto the horse's neck. 30 years ago a Northern California jockey named Nate Hubbard won a race by doing that.
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01-04-2018, 06:58 PM
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#118
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny
No jock would jump off like that. I wasn't trying to imply he did.
I was just wondering if something else spooked the horse.
Thanks.
He was actually lucky to be so far ahead when he fell. The others may have had a little more time to react. (Though he still did hurt.)
Not like what happened to Mike Venezia. He went off right in front of and next to Robbie's horse and there was no chance to avoid him.
I was watching with my binoculars from the 2nd floor of the grandstand and can still see it now in my mind.
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For some reason I still remember the names of the two horses involved in that: Drums in the Night and Mister Walter K.
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01-04-2018, 07:16 PM
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#119
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdhanover
Was the whip and then a bad step by the horse. I had the eventual winner so I was 'happy' (once I heard there were no injuries involved). But you can see clearly the horse takes a strange step to the side. At that speed, the jockey gets thrown - he is not expecting that and it is too fast/sudden to compensate. Have also seen it before.
A jockey would never purposefully fall off with a dozen horses coming behind him...might mean he dies (kick to the head etc which has happened).
Sometimes i think we forget they are horses not machines.
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The reaction the whip was immediate. Whether the sudden move caused the rider to lose it or the horse also took a bad step I'm not sure.
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01-04-2018, 11:44 PM
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#120
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MutuelClerk
We had a guy at our track yesterday play all/all/all/all/all/all in the Rainbow. Think it was 14,800. Tough day at the track when you hit the P6 and lose 10k.
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Knowing the way the RB6 is designed to pay, you gotta figure more often than not an "all" bet isn't going to get it done.
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