Masochistic DQed from BC Sprint

[cj]

Originally Posted by foregoforever

According to the story on Paulick, the horse ran on Aug 27 and was put on the vet's list on Aug 29, which presumably was a result of Ellis reporting it. The steroid administration requires the horse to be on the list for 60 days. So things seem to add up.

Ellis said the race day test showed less than 200 picograms. I'd like to know the limit and the levels and dates of the out-of-competition tests. This might indicate whether it was reasonable for him to think it a 90% chance that it would clear by race day.

That is a lot of presuming. Sport sorely needs documentation system.

[Track Phantom]

1. Why have out of competition tests and not do anything with them? I would think out of competition tests would be the emphasis for scratching the horse so that you do not have a horse in the BC race have an edge. Seems silly to find an issue and "leave it up to Ellis and the owner" to decide to run. I understand the thought that the horse would be clear after the race but the whole thing seems quite silly to me.

2. This article is a disgrace by Jay Privman. Like CJ said, I wonder if Ellis was part of penning this. It is written in a way to diminish the issue. When I read it, I wonder why they didn't just let this pass and give Ellis an Eclipse award for lifetime integrity instead. This is what happens when the journalists get too close to the people they are reporting on.

3. I agree that transparency is important.

4. When will we have our first Kentucky Derby winner DQ'd for drugs? It's coming.

[AltonKelsey]

Originally Posted by Track Phantom

4. When will we have our first Kentucky Derby winner DQ'd for drugs? It's coming.

Sorry, you must have missed the paper that day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dancer's_Image

[Track Phantom]

Originally Posted by AltonKelsey

Sorry, you must have missed the paper that day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dancer's_Image

I was thinking more modern, drug era times (post 1997).

[Track Phantom]

Also, in Privman's article, he makes no mention of the 40x over the legal limit of the tranquilizer the horse was given in the debut and the fact that the original trainer, Avila, was suspended for 60 days, after he shipped to horse to CD and won by 14 lengths while being bet down to 2-1.

He makes it seem rather tame (alleged betting coup). I would think mentioning the drug related issue from his debut race was relevant when you are dealing with a drug related DQ on the same horse in a BC race.

[cj]

The more I read up on this the more it seems this program used by Ellis is just a way to circumvent the steroid rules. Race, juice, wait, race, juice, wait, race, juice, etc.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by cj

The more I read up on this the more it seems this program used by Ellis is just a way to circumvent the steroid rules. Race, juice, wait, race, juice, wait, race, juice, etc.

That's how a lot of steroid regimens in track and field happened back in the day.

[lamboguy]

Originally Posted by cj

The more I read up on this the more it seems this program used by Ellis is just a way to circumvent the steroid rules. Race, juice, wait, race, juice, wait, race, juice, etc.

that is a very sharp observation. now take into account that the horse that we are talking about is MASOCHISTIC, he happens to be a gelding and produces less testosterone than horses that still have their equipment. in order to run at the level he is attempting to run at he has to devour his food and become very aggressive on the track to compete with the other horses. this is the answer how he does it with steroids that give the horse a huge appetite for food.

Ellis is just one of a bunch of trainers that know how to administer these steroids successfully. this horse just happened to need more time to get the steroid through his body.

it turns out that like everything else in life you have 20% who know how to do something and 80% that don't. that is why we have super trainers, and also why this is a dying game. people read numbers and are much more sophisticated in being able to see these random racing results and have refused to support the game. everyone piles into the 20% that know the secrets and stay away from the other 80%. it makes this a very boring game. at the very highest level of this sport, triple crown races and breeders cups, you see the body of the races composed of a few trainers. a couple of years ago there was a breeders cup turf race that had a field of 14, between 3 trainers they had the majority of the horses qualified for the race and as it turns out those 3 trainer's horse ran 1-2-3-4 for your result. it gets very boring after awhile and even a long time veteran of this like myself is sick and tired of this and probably will give it a rest.

[upthecreek]

Originally Posted by stringmail

Can we count on the journalistic integrity at TVG to ask Ellis why he didn't scratch?

If they are concerned about not losing wagering dollars, shouldn't this be addressed so they can build trust with their "employer", the wagering public?

Maybe we can get Talamo's wife to ask her dad on camera?

You won't hear one word on TVG about it

[upthecreek]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

i disagree.
Ellis is a class act.



CHRB should consider changing their protocol for dealing with such situations. To have a 10% chance of a failed drug test, and put the trainer, owners, and bettors in such a situation is irresponsible.

I agree I'll give Ellis a pass on this one 35 years training,zero suspensions and only a couple of drug violations Seems he just made a bad decision

[lamboguy]

Originally Posted by upthecreek

I agree I'll give Ellis a pass on this one 35 years training,zero suspensions and only a couple of drug violations Seems he just made a bad decision

i think you miss the point here, Ellis and the others that do this are only part of the problem, the system is rotten to the core.

heres another example on the other side of things, Phipps won't allow Shug to use these PED's and he can't win no more. its not because he's not a great trainer either, the game has a big edge over him and he is no longer a part of the 20%. but the man remains classy and never opens up his mouth even though he knows all about it and tries as hard as anyone. he has gone to being a great dirt trainer into running most his horses on turf against weaker now.

[BetHorses!]

I'm surprised he had his choice of 8 labs for the split sample. If split comes back negative horse is considered clean...

[Dahoss9698]

This is an attempt at a coverup on racing's biggest stage.

Maybe it wouldn't be such a big deal if the horses human connections didn't spend yesterday trying to play the "poor me" routine. Plus I can't imagine we'll get much in terms of real reporting consider racing journalists for the most part are allergic to betting. They seem more interested in telling us how classy everyone normally is. Just not when they run a horse they know is dirty.

Assuming that everything was on the up and up and Ellis hasn't just figured out a program....knowing the history of Masochistic, wouldnt you think they'd go out of their way to make sure everything is on the up and up at ALL times?

This incident won't impact my handle at all but it's pretty scary to think if this is going on when EVERYONE is watching, what is happening in an 8k claimer on a Wednesday?

[cj]

http://www.mn.uio.no/ibv/english/res...-effekter.html

[RunDustyRun]

Originally Posted by cj

The more I read up on this the more it seems this program used by Ellis is just a way to circumvent the steroid rules. Race, juice, wait, race, juice, wait, race, juice, etc.

agreed...TVG hosts always tout Ellis horses first off the claim with 60 plus day lay-offs...