The Greatest of All Time - Bob Baffert

[Sysonby]

I don't think they'd allow that. The New York language was no one employed or associated with Baffert could enter one of his horses, so I'd assume Churchill will take the same approach.

[pandy]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

I find it odd people are so upset at Baffert, who is clearly gaming the system, yet there seems to be little outrage at the system who is allowing him to game it. I assume most people realize Baffert is in a large group who are doing this?

If your betting today, you should do it knowing you are playing many trainers who do the very same thing, some of these trainers have extensive pasts just like Baffert.

I wonder if it wasnt for CRW teams propping up the handle that racing might have decided long ago to put a stop to all these shenanigans? People have left betting on this sport, obviously as handle is way down from 20 years ago, but it would be paltry without out the CRW teams.

You make a very good point. I've been very critical of the CHRB. After Authentic's Derby win last year I wrote a piece about Baffert that also criticized the CHRB. Here's a paragraph from that article:

Another reason why Baffert gets away with this stuff is that the CHRB appears to cover up for him. To me, it seems like corruption. It’s certainly suspicious. Baffert and his friends at the CHRB always come up with some lame excuse for the drug violations, like, “the feed was tainted with drugs”. Funny how so many other very successful trainers who have trained over 10,000 starters have never had that “tainted feed” problem that plagues the Baffert barn. Maybe Bob Baffert should buy his feed from Graham Motion.

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by pandy

You make a very good point. I've been very critical of the CHRB. After Authentic's Derby win last year I wrote a piece about Baffert that also criticized the CHRB. Here's a paragraph from that article:

Another reason why Baffert gets away with this stuff is that the CHRB appears to cover up for him. To me, it seems like corruption. It’s certainly suspicious. Baffert and his friends at the CHRB always come up with some lame excuse for the drug violations, like, “the feed was tainted with drugs”. Funny how so many other very successful trainers who have trained over 10,000 starters have never had that “tainted feed” problem that plagues the Baffert barn. Maybe Bob Baffert should buy his feed from Graham Motion.

Hope the truth about the sudden deaths comes out. I'm told there is a journalist for a large paper working on it. If it comes out and if it names names they all will be buried and Baffert will be out of the game forever IMO.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by Sysonby

I don't think they'd allow that. The New York language was no one employed or associated with Baffert could enter one of his horses, so I'd assume Churchill will take the same approach.

hope so, it would be a small start, and a significant statement.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

Hope the truth about the sudden deaths comes out. I'm told there is a journalist for a large paper working on it. If it comes out and if it names names they all will be buried and Baffert will be out of the game forever IMO.

The scary thing about that is that the sport is very fragile here in California. We have a very liberal electorate. We already had a big scandal with the Santa Anita deaths a couple of years ago.

If it turns out the state regulators are proven to have conspired to avoid doing anything about horse deaths caused by their buddy Baffert, the chances of a voter initiative appearing on the ballot to ban the sport go way up. And such an initiative could pass.

Even above just the offense I take about people getting away with cheating and putting dangerous drugs into horses, that's my background worry here. We don't think of it this way, but horse racing, and indeed all legal gambling, is a public trust.

If it turned out that all the major hotels in Las Vegas were rigging the slot machines and conspiring with Nevada regulators to prevent any disciplinary action from being taken, can you imagine the effect something like that would have when it came out? Or imagine if a state was rigging its lottery so that the "random" draws actually were designed to produce numbers that nobody bought, to boost its jackpots.

The entire notion of state-sponsored gambling is that the state sponsorship and regulation is supposed to prevent the types of things that you could imagine happening if the private sector ran it. It tells the public "you can trust the pools- maybe you will lose, but our regulators are around to prevent this from being fixed against you".

And I am very afraid that a California voting public could just decide that we don't need horse racing anymore- that it is too full of corruption and abuse to be worth it. The CHRB should be thinking in terms of protecting the sport, not protecting its buddies.

[Andy Asaro]

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[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

The scary thing about that is that the sport is very fragile here in California. We have a very liberal electorate. We already had a big scandal with the Santa Anita deaths a couple of years ago.

If it turns out the state regulators are proven to have conspired to avoid doing anything about horse deaths caused by their buddy Baffert, the chances of a voter initiative appearing on the ballot to ban the sport go way up. And such an initiative could pass.

Even above just the offense I take about people getting away with cheating and putting dangerous drugs into horses, that's my background worry here. We don't think of it this way, but horse racing, and indeed all legal gambling, is a public trust.

If it turned out that all the major hotels in Las Vegas were rigging the slot machines and conspiring with Nevada regulators to prevent any disciplinary action from being taken, can you imagine the effect something like that would have when it came out? Or imagine if a state was rigging its lottery so that the "random" draws actually were designed to produce numbers that nobody bought, to boost its jackpots.

The entire notion of state-sponsored gambling is that the state sponsorship and regulation is supposed to prevent the types of things that you could imagine happening if the private sector ran it. It tells the public "you can trust the pools- maybe you will lose, but our regulators are around to prevent this from being fixed against you".

And I am very afraid that a California voting public could just decide that we don't need horse racing anymore- that it is too full of corruption and abuse to be worth it. The CHRB should be thinking in terms of protecting the sport, not protecting its buddies.

The equine medical director of the chrb, the then chrb commissioner David Israel (sat with Baffert in his box during the investigation), and two TOC officials one of which was a former congressman were probably involved IMO. From what I remember at the time the TOC wanted Rich Arthur out and then all of a sudden he wasn't out. Hope someone does a deep dive on this.


California Bill Targeting Equine Medical Director Dies Necessary Death

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/r...cessary-death/

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

https://twitter.com/racetrackandy/st...00564566691840

FWIW, this is the one suit that could have some legs.

The courts have repeatedly held NYRA to be part of the government. NYRA hates this, but they have lost the argument over and over again. They are structured like a government agency, no matter what they like to say.

And that means NYRA, unlike, e.g., Churchill Downs, is subject to the Due Process clause. They may need to give Baffert some sort of a notice and hearing in connection with their decision to suspend him. Now, at the end of the day, given the facts, they can probably give the notice and have the hearing and then stick with their decision. But the suit could be successful.

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

FWIW, this is the one suit that could have some legs.

The courts have repeatedly held NYRA to be part of the government. NYRA hates this, but they have lost the argument over and over again. They are structured like a government agency, no matter what they like to say.

And that means NYRA, unlike, e.g., Churchill Downs, is subject to the Due Process clause. They may need to give Baffert some sort of a notice and hearing in connection with their decision to suspend him. Now, at the end of the day, given the facts, they can probably give the notice and have the hearing and then stick with their decision. But the suit could be successful.

Maybe he'll be successful but one thing I know is that Lawyers are expensive and his Lawyer probably gets close to 1K an hour along with people on his team getting close to half that. With the constant problems over the last few years and having his Lawyer fly around the country Baffert has to be spending tons of money at a fast clip. Someone said he was worth around 30 million. By the time this legal action and the other suits he is involved in are done he'll likely spend at least 10 million of it. Bills run up quickly.

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

The equine medical director of the chrb, the then chrb commissioner David Israel (sat with Baffert in his box during the investigation), and two TOC officials one of which was a former congressman were probably involved IMO. From what I remember at the time the TOC wanted Rich Arthur out and then all of a sudden he wasn't out. Hope someone does a deep dive on this.


California Bill Targeting Equine Medical Director Dies Necessary Death

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/r...cessary-death/

None of this directly implicates any of them in a coverup of the Baffert sudden deaths but............

California Rep. Dennis Cardoza resigns, citing family issues

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/pol...e24734788.html

Excerpt:

“His expertise with California issues, as well as his deep experience and insight into both federal and state affairs, makes him a terrific resource,” said Jim Bonham, chairman of the firm’s federal government affairs and public policy group.


Dennis Cardoza Joins TOC Board

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac...oins-toc-board

President of L.A. Coliseum Commission resigns abruptly

(Israel was CHRB Commissioner during the Baffert sudden deaths investigation)

https://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-...607-story.html

Excerpts:

“The commission is facing insolvency combined with mismanagement, corruption and fraudulent activities,” Stein said. He said the Science Center board should assume the negotiations.

His 16 months as president were dominated by the scandal that followed Times reports on financial irregularities at the venue. In March, a county grand jury indicted three former Coliseum managers, a stadium contractor and two prominent concert promoters on a variety of corruption charges.

[pandy]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

Hope the truth about the sudden deaths comes out. I'm told there is a journalist for a large paper working on it. If it comes out and if it names names they all will be buried and Baffert will be out of the game forever IMO.

I haven't heard that but you have to wonder where all the suspicious reporters have gone these days. I hope you're right.

[foregoforever]

Originally Posted by pandy

I haven't heard that but you have to wonder where all the suspicious reporters have gone these days. I hope you're right.

I'm hoping some enterprising reporter will find a thoroughbred, apply otomax to his hindquarters for a week or two and then run a blood test to see what concentration is detected.

[dilanesp]

Track and field just gave Shelby Houlihan 4 years for testing positive for a steroid. She claimed it came from eating a contaminated burrito.

https://mobile.twitter.com/REALChess...99760133230597

[cj]

Article from Bloodhorse says the Baffert camp expects no more than 30 days from the Derby positive. Seems unlikely to me, but they floated it out there. They also think they can drag this out for four years:

"For context," the suit continued, "only one other Kentucky Derby winner has been subsequently disqualified for a finding in a post-race blood sample. That matter was adjudicated for nearly four years before any final determination was reached. Even if Baffert is found in violation of Kentucky's rules and regulations, the likely maximum penalty he may face under Kentucky law is a 30-day suspension."

[Psychotic Parakeet]

Originally Posted by pandy

I haven't heard that but you have to wonder where all the suspicious reporters have gone these days. I hope you're right.

Same. I hope he is right, too. I found 34 dead horses under Baffert from 2011 to now. I bet there are many more, especially the numerous intact colts which only made 1 or 2 lifetime starts that suddenly went "poof" without a death report, mares bred, or export file.