Shackleford - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

Track Phantom · 08-27-2011, 04:13 AM

No way he gets beat in the Travers...

Have you ever seen a horse approaching 2 million in earnings who has been favored only once in his career...but double digits 3 times?

Gets no respect. Race sets up perfectly this time.

http://www.trackphantom.com/

ManU918 · 08-27-2011, 09:17 AM

I'm with you. I think he gets to the lead sets somewhat slow fractions and pulls away (Well that's what I'm hoping for). We just have to hope for a clean break.

oddsmaven · 08-27-2011, 09:43 AM

I respect him...bet him in the Preakness and Belmont...but I don't much like him today...anyone who says "no way" he can lose has an interesting perspective, considering Stay Thirsty comes into the Travers a very sharp horse now.

ManU918 · 08-27-2011, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oddsmaven

I respect him...bet him in the Preakness and Belmont...but I don't much like him today...anyone who says "no way" he can lose has an interesting perspective, considering Stay Thirsty comes into the Travers a very sharp horse now.

I'm not saying he cant lose, this is horse racing anything can happen. But I really love his chances today.

Tom · 08-27-2011, 10:45 AM

I'm waiting to see PA's picks - he and Shackleford text each other.

skate · 08-27-2011, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom

I'm waiting to see PA's picks - he and Shackleford text each other.

one of them being a bit slow, might be the weight?

Edward DeVere · 08-27-2011, 08:33 PM

Shackleford is one of the most misridden (is that a word?) horses in history.

toussaud · 08-27-2011, 08:42 PM

he's just not that good.

there are horses like this every year that fool people. he never was a good horse.

everyone @ gulfstream talked about how game of a race he ran but in retrospect how crappy was that Florida derby field was? he was the 2nd best of a crappy field.

The Preakness, show me 1 2 turn horse int hat race outside of Animal kingdom and i will give you a cookie. He was lucky Animal kingdom did not take to the track.

The Haskell was just a crappy field. And he got exposed today

I mean, relativity he's not a bad horse and i would love to own him. But he's no hard spun.

Just because you run in the money hell, just because you WIN a race doesn't mean you took to the distance. Look no further than JP's gusto's Futurity win for proof of that. He's just better than the horses behind him but it doesn't make him good

Robert Fischer · 08-27-2011, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toussaud

he's just not that good.

there are horses like this every year that fool people. he never was a good horse.

everyone @ gulfstream talked about how game of a race he ran but in retrospect how crappy was that Florida derby field was? he was the 2nd best of a crappy field.

The Preakness, show me 1 2 turn horse int hat race outside of Animal kingdom and i will give you a cookie. He was lucky Animal kingdom did not take to the track.

The Haskell was just a crappy field. And he got exposed today

I mean, relativity he's not a bad horse and i would love to own him. But he's no hard spun.

Just because you run in the money hell, just because you WIN a race doesn't mean you took to the distance. Look no further than JP's gusto's Futurity win for proof of that. He's just better than the horses behind him but it doesn't make him good

ouch , can't say I agree with much of this.

sometimes horses run well or run poorly depending on different factors, and there isn't always a broad brush to generalize with.

papillon · 08-29-2011, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toussaud

he's just not that good.

there are horses like this every year that fool people. he never was a good horse.

everyone @ gulfstream talked about how game of a race he ran but in retrospect how crappy was that Florida derby field was? he was the 2nd best of a crappy field.

The Preakness, show me 1 2 turn horse int hat race outside of Animal kingdom and i will give you a cookie. He was lucky Animal kingdom did not take to the track.

The Haskell was just a crappy field. And he got exposed today

I mean, relativity he's not a bad horse and i would love to own him. But he's no hard spun.

Just because you run in the money hell, just because you WIN a race doesn't mean you took to the distance. Look no further than JP's gusto's Futurity win for proof of that. He's just better than the horses behind him but it doesn't make him good

that is a little bit unfair.

who has said shack is the second coming of hard spun?

most just seem to think he is a gutsy horse--a nice speed horse with heart--who's pretty hard not to like. it seems to me, from what i've read, most acknowledge shack's limitations but just really appreciate his determination. i haven't really seen anyone say that they weren't concerned that 1 1/4 was at the far end of shack's range.

shack has soundly beaten stay thirsty twice, and been soundly beaten by stay thirsty twice, so if stay thirsty is the best of this crop, than shack can't be far behind. (btw, if shack was 2nd best of a crappy florida field, what does that make stay thirsty, who finished something like 7th in the same "crappy" field?). shack may not be "that good," but none of them seem to be "that good" this year tbh.

plus if shack was lucky that AK didn't take to pimlico, then stay thirsty must have been equally lucky that coil didn't take to saratoga and that shack had a melt down, not to mention that saratoga is his favorite track. luck has always been part of the game, no?

stay thirsty's final time was slow. he deserves credit for hanging with shack through a 1.11 and change 3/4, but he didn't win going away in the stretch, he won by grinding it out, and out lasting everyone else--his final time, compared to the internal fractions shows that...his final furlong was run in what? something like 26 seconds...so if the haskell was a crappy field, than the travers was an equally crappy field, since it was made of of the haskell field and an bunch of allowance winners.

i don't like that romans is pointing shack towards the jcgc, but at a mile an quarter over churchill's main track, i like shack better than i like stay thirsty, even if i'd prefer shack be entered in the dirt mile and even if i don't really like either one over one of the older males or even blind luck, or even if i'd really prefer that he be given a rest.

toussaud · 08-29-2011, 01:34 PM

i never said stay thirsty is the best of this crop, in fact i'm on record as to saying on this very forum I think Stay thirsty is a NY horse. Take him outside of NY and i don't think he will run a lick.

This game is about opinions, and 'm not one to be very "diplomatic". Being diplomatic cost me too much money becuase i have keep all the horses on tickets becuase they could do this or that.. my opinion is that shackleford is a tweener, a horse not fast enough to win the best sprints, but can't run far enough to win the best handicap races. Heck, if you go back and look at his "gutsy" Florida derby run what was the beyer maybe a 92? the horse is slow and has been running against hyped horses slower than he is, but against any horse that has a resemblance of a grade 1 pulse i will chose that horse and make shack beat me.

Stay Thirsty is a grade 1 horse in NY. I do not think that's the case outside of NY.

They will keep him in NY probably for the JCGC as a final prep in which i think if he doesn't win he will run really well and get bet down at churchill and proceed top run up the track.

classhandicapper · 08-29-2011, 04:23 PM

IMO Shackleford could use a vacation. He ran in all 3 legs of the Triple Crown, the Haskell and now the Travers. Along the way he had a few brutal stretch drives where he gave it everything he had. I think his Travers performance was so sub par, he's telling his connections to freshen him up.

cj · 08-29-2011, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

IMO Shackleford could use a vacation. He ran in all 3 legs of the Triple Crown, the Haskell and now the Travers. Along the way he had a few brutal stretch drives where he gave it everything he had. I think his Travers performance was so sub par, he's telling his connections to freshen him up.

I agree, he has clearly tailed off since the Preakness. You could blame the distance in the Belmont, but his Haskell was weak and his Travers even worse.

thespaah · 08-29-2011, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

IMO Shackleford could use a vacation. He ran in all 3 legs of the Triple Crown, the Haskell and now the Travers. Along the way he had a few brutal stretch drives where he gave it everything he had. I think his Travers performance was so sub par, he's telling his connections to freshen him up.

I agree.

toussaud · 08-29-2011, 07:59 PM

you say he needs a vacation but there is no doubt in my mind if the spotted the horse in say the indiana derby or the super derby he would win next out.

What he really needs is a class drop.