2016-2017 NBA thread

[cj]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Harden is making a pretty-strong case in protest to that.

One, the votes are already in. Two, it is a team game and the Rockets are a better team.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by cj

One, the votes are already in. Two, it is a team game and the Rockets are a better team.

Haven't you stated on this board that we shouldn't "fall in love" with the best player of an average team? Shouldn't this also apply to Russell Westbrook? How difficult is it to "shine bright" on the court...when no one else on your team can shoot the ball?

Russell is a great player, and he had a phenomenal year...statistically speaking. But Harden elevates the performance of his entire TEAM...and that's the true meaning behind the term "MVP"...IMO.

[cj]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Haven't you stated on this board that we shouldn't "fall in love" with the best player of an average team? Shouldn't this also apply to Russell Westbrook? How difficult is it to "shine bright" on the court...when no one else on your team can shoot the ball?

Russell is a great player, and he had a phenomenal year...statistically speaking. But Harden elevates the performance of his entire TEAM...and that's the true meaning behind the term "MVP"...IMO.

I've always said on a bad team, not average.

If you swapped the two players, I doubt either team's record would change much, but I still think Russ is a better player overall.

[cj]

Article about Enes Kanter. He talks a lot about Russ. He says a lot of things better than I can.

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en...-nba-mvp-2017/

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by cj

Article about Enes Kanter. He talks a lot about Russ. He says a lot of things better than I can.

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en...-nba-mvp-2017/

To be fair, this isn't an article ABOUT Enes Kanter; It's an article BY Enes Kanter. I mean...what did you expect the guy to say? That Westbrook is a SHOW-OFF...as well as a great player?

Earlier this year, with the Warriors destroying the Thunder by 30 rather late in the game, in Oklahoma...Russell got into a little roll -- and cut the Warrior lead to 18 points. "I'm coming...I'm coming"...he yelled back at Durant...even as the game remained well out of reach. Why didn't he say "WE are coming"...since this is, as you said earlier, a "team game"?

[cj]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

To be fair, this isn't an article ABOUT Enes Kanter; It's an article BY Enes Kanter. I mean...what did you expect the guy to say? That Westbrook is a SHOW-OFF...as well as a great player?

Earlier this year, with the Warriors destroying the Thunder by 30 rather late in the game, in Oklahoma...Russell got into a little roll -- and cut the Warrior lead to 18 points. "I'm coming...I'm coming"...he yelled back at Durant...even as the game remained well out of reach. Why didn't he say "WE are coming"...since this is, as you said earlier, a "team game"?

Overanalyze much? His teammates love him. If they didn't, you'd hear about it. This isn't college. Players speak their mind all the time. The point is he makes the players around him better too, they just aren't as good. The Thunder are the second youngest team in the playoffs. They did the best they could given the Durant departure. I think they'll build a better team around him in the next year. If they don't, he'll leave, and I don't blame him.

I guess I just don't get all the Russ hate. He really is a great guy. He is a family man off the court that doesn't cause any problems. He is a great locker room guy. He is fabulous on the court. What more do people want? He isn't the GM. If you put him in Harden's place the Rockets would be every bit as good or better than they are now. It's not like Russ isn't a willing passer. We're talking about a guy that had 22 assists one game this year and several with 15+. He'd have a lot more if he weren't surrounded by bricklayers. His late game play has been HISTORICALLY good.

For the record I've been a Westbrook guy since the beginning. He gives everything he has when he is on the floor. I respect that a lot. I think he has earned everything he has coming to him after the season.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by cj

Overanalyze much? His teammates love him. If they didn't, you'd hear about it. This isn't college. Players speak their mind all the time. The point is he makes the players around him better too, they just aren't as good. The Thunder are the second youngest team in the playoffs. They did the best they could given the Durant departure. I think they'll build a better team around him in the next year. If they don't, he'll leave, and I don't blame him.

I guess I just don't get all the Russ hate. He really is a great guy. He is a family man off the court that doesn't cause any problems. He is a great locker room guy. He is fabulous on the court. What more do people want? He isn't the GM. If you put him in Harden's place the Rockets would be every bit as good or better than they are now. It's not like Russ isn't a willing passer. We're talking about a guy that had 22 assists one game this year and several with 15+. He'd have a lot more if he weren't surrounded by bricklayers. His late game play has been HISTORICALLY good.

For the record I've been a Westbrook guy since the beginning. He gives everything he has when he is on the floor. I respect that a lot. I think he has earned everything he has coming to him after the season.

In my case, it isn't "Russ hate"; it's this constant talk about the "triple-doubles"...that seem to take precedence over the overall performance of the Thunder team.

Early March, and the Thunder have lost 4 in a row...to the likes of Portland, Phoenix, Dallas, and Portland again. But, leading the action on SportsCenter is Russell and his triple-double streak...which has him leading the MVP race -- in spite of his team's erratic play.

The Thunder lose by 24 to the Suns in a HORRIBLE performance on April 7th...but SO WHAT! Russell sealed the season-average triple-double "historic achievement" in that game, so, SportsCenter isolates on THAT...and the terrible beat-down handed to them by a mediocre opponent is barely even mentioned during the telecast.

Before this season started, The Thunder were predicted to win 45 games this year...while the Rockets were predicted to win 41 games. I think Las Vegas had the Thunder as a 10-1 pre-season pick to win this year's NBA title, while the Rockets were listed at 60-1 odds. But Harden still can't get the credit that he deserves for his team's meteoric rise this year, because, all of a sudden...Harden is surrounded by the "better supporting cast". No longer is anybody talking about what the Rockets' realistic expectations were headed into this season.

Russell's "historic" triple-double streak has garnered all the media attention this year...and has eclipsed his team's erratic play. And it has also eclipsed what Harden has managed to accomplish in Houston. Harden has turned a rank outsider into a legitimate title-contender this year...and that's what the "MVP" award should be mainly about, IMO.

[cj]

I would say those were horrible lines more than representative of the true ability the players. I also your Thunder line is off, at least after KD left.

[ronsmac]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

In my case, it isn't "Russ hate"; it's this constant talk about the "triple-doubles"...that seem to take precedence over the overall performance of the Thunder team.

Early March, and the Thunder have lost 4 in a row...to the likes of Portland, Phoenix, Dallas, and Portland again. But, leading the action on SportsCenter is Russell and his triple-double streak...which has him leading the MVP race -- in spite of his team's erratic play.

The Thunder lose by 24 to the Suns in a HORRIBLE performance on April 7th...but SO WHAT! Russell sealed the season-average triple-double "historic achievement" in that game, so, SportsCenter isolates on THAT...and the terrible beat-down handed to them by a mediocre opponent is barely even mentioned during the telecast.

Before this season started, The Thunder were predicted to win 45 games this year...while the Rockets were predicted to win 41 games. I think Las Vegas had the Thunder as a 10-1 pre-season pick to win this year's NBA title, while the Rockets were listed at 60-1 odds. But Harden still can't get the credit that he deserves for his team's meteoric rise this year, because, all of a sudden...Harden is surrounded by the "better supporting cast". No longer is anybody talking about what the Rockets' realistic expectations were headed into this season.

Russell's "historic" triple-double streak has garnered all the media attention this year...and has eclipsed his team's erratic play. And it has also eclipsed what Harden has managed to accomplish in Houston. Harden has turned a rank outsider into a legitimate title-contender this year...and that's what the "MVP" award should be mainly about, IMO.

I can't believe OKC was 10-1 without Durant. What would they have been with him 3-1? And if they were predicted to only win 45 games that would make them like a 40-1 shot.

[thaskalos]

http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id...egas-superbook

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/ve...or-every-team/

[ronsmac]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id...egas-superbook

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/ve...or-every-team/

I'm probably being generous. The 45 wins may have equaled 50-1. 8-1 with Durant was still too low.

[cj]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id...egas-superbook

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/ve...or-every-team/

Those opening odds were before Durant left. They would have been much lower if he were known to be staying, and much, much higher if know to be leaving. The Jazz, for example, were predicted to win more games and were 80-1.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by ronsmac

I'm probably being generous. The 45 wins may have equaled 50-1. 8-1 with Durant was still too low.

They should hire you as a Vegas odds-maker.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by cj

Those opening odds were before Durant left. They would have been much lower if he were known to be staying, and much, much higher if know to be leaving. The Jazz, for example, were predicted to win more games and were 80-1.

Durant's leaving was mentioned in the over/under article...and the Thunder were still predicted to win 45.5 games.

[cj]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Durant's leaving was mentioned in the over/under article...and the Thunder were still predicted to win 45.5 games.

Right, but there is no way that is an 8-1 shot for the title as Ron mentioned. I'd also say they were projected to win that many only because of Russell Westbrook.