Religion III

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Don't you get it? Your own pride is the impediment. The little knowledge you have is responsible for preventing more.

However, your self-imposed ignorance will prove to the death of you. Those who love the darkness due to their evil deeds cannot come to the light.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

However, your self-imposed ignorance will prove to the death of you. Those who love the darkness due to their evil deeds cannot come to the light.

Just thought I would help.
Bye bunky.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Just thought I would help.
Bye bunky.

Don't forget to take your furry, flea-infested pet rat with you.

[boxcar]

SCOTUS rules religious, moral objection exceptions to Obamacare's birth control mandate are lawful

https://www.theblaze.com/news/scotus...reaking%20News

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Read the account of the fall of man someday. Adam's sin against God was real. And we can know this with certainty because Adam instinctively separated himself from his Creator when he ran and hid from Him in the garden. Just as physical death is the separation of the soul from the body, spiritual death is the separation of the soul from its Creator. Just as light cannot coexist with darkness, likewise God who is Light cannot have fellowship with darkness, which is what fallen man is (Eph 5:8). Light and darkness are like oil and water.

Why do you think Christ's kingdom is called the Kingdom of Light, while the devil's is called the Kingdom of Darkness?

My interpretation is that the separation in the A&E story was between God and Ego not between God and Man. After all our true nature is not our Ego's.

After A&E's "sin", God continued to talk to A&E. It was A&E who hid from God for being ashamed of what they'd done through their Ego's, not God who hid from them. If God was truly upset and had damned mankind at that point he would have wiped them out.

Furthermore it shows in the Bible God continued to talk to man such as Abraham, Noah, Moses etc. "Sin" did not separate mankind from God. Sin (Ego) cannot hold a candle to the unconditional love of God for his own creation.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

My interpretation is that the separation in the A&E story was between God and Ego not between God and Man. After all our true nature is not our Ego's.

After A&E's "sin", God continued to talk to A&E. It was A&E who hid from God for being ashamed of what they'd done through their Ego's, not God who hid from them. If God was truly upset and had damned mankind at that point he would have wiped them out.

Furthermore it shows in the Bible God continued to talk to man such as Abraham, Noah, Moses etc. "Sin" did not separate mankind from God. Sin (Ego) cannot hold a candle to the unconditional love of God for his own creation.

Who has the "ego" problem?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

My interpretation is that the separation in the A&E story was between God and Ego not between God and Man. After all our true nature is not our Ego's.

After A&E's "sin", God continued to talk to A&E. It was A&E who hid from God for being ashamed of what they'd done through their Ego's, not God who hid from them. If God was truly upset and had damned mankind at that point he would have wiped them out.

Furthermore it shows in the Bible God continued to talk to man such as Abraham, Noah, Moses etc. "Sin" did not separate mankind from God. Sin (Ego) cannot hold a candle to the unconditional love of God for his own creation.

Now that I have a little more time, I will respond more fully.

First of all, I suggested to you that you read the account of the Fall, and you obviously did not. So now you must suffer additional embarrassment for proudly putting your ignorance on display.

God did kick Adam and Eve out of the Garden -- in a rather unceremonious fashion to boot! If that isn't God (who is Light) separating himself from sinful humans (Darkness), then I don't know what is.

Gen 3:22-24
22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." 23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.
NIV

God even posted an armed angelic guard to protect the Garden from trespassers!

God's anger burned against our first parents (most especially Adam) but He did not destroy them utterly because that would have given Satan the victory. Instead, God spared them in order to implement and carry out his redemptive plan for the human race because no created being can thwart God's purpose or plan.

Prov 21:30
30 There is no wisdom , no insight, no plan
that can succeed against the LORD.
NIV

Secondly, Light and Darkness cannot logically have any fellowship (2Cor 6:14), apart from God doing a [b ]supernatural work[/b] in the hearts of his elect to dispel the darkness. Pay close attention to the following analogy by Paul:

2 Cor 4:6
6 For God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness," is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
NASB

So, just as God in the very beginning commanded that light shine out of darkness in this world, that same powerful, sovereign command goes forth from his mouth when he dispels the darkness in his chosen people's hearts. God himself shines in his elect's hearts to supernaturally reveal himself through Christ.

This is how God delivers his people from the kingdom of darkness to the Kingdom of Light.

1 Peter 2:9-10
9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
NIV

And,

Eph 5:8
8 For you were once darkness , but now you are light in the Lord.
NIV

And,

Col 1:13-14
13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
NIV

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

So now you must suffer additional embarrassment for proudly putting your ignorance on display.

LOL

Originally Posted by boxcar

God did kick Adam and Eve out of the Garden -- in a rather unceremonious fashion to boot! If that isn't God (who is Light) separating himself from sinful humans (Darkness), then I don't know what is.

But as I said, he did not cut them off completely and continued to communicate with them. Why would he if he was as angry as you imply. These are his children and if he was more unforgiving and angrier than a human parent for his child's disobedience then what kind of God are you revering but a God of stupidity who is dumber than his own creation.

That's why in my opinion your interpretation of that event is pure ignorance.

You cannot make someone love you and obey you by force. Were Adam and Eve suppose to just shake in their boots to their Father? What kind of Loving Father is that? That attitude only leads to feeling despised and resentment to the "boss". Many dictators are good at that.

Is that your highest assessment of God: as a punisher and fear mongerer? Uneducated thugs do that all across the world every day. Go worship them, they do the same thing.

Originally Posted by boxcar

God's anger burned against our first parents (most especially Adam) but He did not destroy them utterly because that would have given Satan the victory. Instead, God spared them in order to implement and carry out his redemptive plan for the human race because no created being can thwart God's purpose or plan.

Another poor interpretation of God as a 2YO with a temper tantrum and unlimited power. If I was God, I wouldn't like your PR view of me.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

LOL



But as I said, he did not cut them off completely and continued to communicate with them. Why would he if he was as angry as you imply. These are his children and if he was more unforgiving and angrier than a human parent for his child's disobedience then what kind of God are you revering but a God of stupidity who is dumber than his own creation.

That's why in my opinion your interpretation of that event is pure ignorance.

You cannot make someone love you and obey you by force. Were Adam and Eve suppose to just shake in their boots to their Father? What kind of Loving Father is that? That attitude only leads to feeling despised and resentment to the "boss". Many dictators are good at that.

Is that your highest assessment of God: as a punisher and fear mongerer? Uneducated thugs do that all across the world every day. Go worship them, they do the same thing.

Another poor interpretation of God as a 2YO with a temper tantrum and unlimited power. If I was God, I wouldn't like your PR view of me.

God communicating with any of his created creatures is one thing; but having an intimate, loving relationship with any fallen creature is something else altogether. God communicated with Cain before and after he murdered Abel. Yet, Cain was cursed by God and marked for destruction.

LOGICALLY AND BIBLICALLY, THERE CAN BE NO PERSONAL, INTIMATE FELLOWSHIP BETWEEN LIGHT AND DARKNESS, UNLESS GOD ACTS SUPERNATURALLY WITHIN THE HEARTS OF HIS ELECT TO SAVE THEM.

And who said God "forces" anyone to love Him? Grace doesn't force a sinner to do anything -- to repent and believe, for example. But it does make the sinner willing!

P.S. Universal salvation is nowhere taught in the bible -- just like unconditional love isn't either.

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

God communicating with any of his created creatures is one thing; but having an intimate, loving relationship with any fallen creature is something else altogether. God communicated with Cain before and after he murdered Abel. Yet, Cain was cursed by God and marked for destruction.

How do you define God having some sort of "unloving" communication with Adam and Eve as opposed to a "loving" communication with someone else?

Originally Posted by boxcar

And who said God "forces" anyone to love Him? Grace doesn't force a sinner to do anything -- to repent and believe, for example. But it does make the sinner willing!

How can you say that when your God says you will burn in Hell forever if you disobey him?

If someone holds a gun to your head, and tells you you have free will, but if you choose to not do as he says, he will blow your head off. Yes technically you have free will, but with such a heavy consequence how can you say it's "free"?

Originally Posted by boxcar

P.S. Universal salvation is nowhere taught in the bible -- just like unconditional love isn't either.

The pink elephant in what you just said is that Jesus died for our sins through God's unconditional love.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

How do you define God having some sort of "unloving" communication with Adam and Eve as opposed to a "loving" communication with someone else?

What is there to "define"?

How can you say that when your God says you will burn in Hell forever if you disobey him?

Your question is incoherent.

If someone holds a gun to your head, and tells you you have free will, but if you choose to not do as he says, he will blow your head off. Yes technically you have free will, but with such a heavy consequence how can you say it's "free"?

You're equating a gun with God's grace? A gunman can coerce someone but God's grace in a person's heart transforms that person from inside out -- something a gun cannot do. A person is not saved by God's gun but by his grace. You, too, should avoid analogies.

Eph 2:8-9
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith — and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
NIV

The pink elephant in what you just said is that Jesus died for our sins through God's unconditional love.

You're lying. I never said such thing. The nature of God's love is sacrificial, not unconditional. Plus Jesus atoned only for the sins of his Father's elect -- not everyone in the world.

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

What is there to "define"?

It's no wonder you can't understand beyond the superficial.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Your question is incoherent.

It's no wonder you can't understand beyond the superficial.

Originally Posted by boxcar

You're equating a gun with God's grace? A gunman can coerce someone but God's grace in a person's heart transforms that person from inside out -- something a gun cannot do. A person is not saved by God's gun but by his grace. You, too, should avoid analogies.

It's no wonder you can't understand beyond the superficial. I was NOT equating a gun with God's grace. Reread.

Originally Posted by boxcar

The nature of God's love is sacrificial, not unconditional. Plus Jesus atoned only for the sins of his Father's elect -- not everyone in the world.

It's no wonder you can't understand beyond the superficial.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by boxcar

And who said God "forces" anyone to love Him?

God doesn't "force" us to love him...but he'll sentence us to eternal damnation if we don't.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

God doesn't "force" us to love him...but he'll sentence us to eternal damnation if we don't.

And that's unjust? Why is God obligated to save anyone?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

It's no wonder you can't understand beyond the superficial.





It's no wonder you can't understand beyond the superficial.



It's no wonder you can't understand beyond the superficial. I was NOT equating a gun with God's grace. Reread.




It's no wonder you can't understand beyond the superficial.

You're really stuck on stupid today, aren't you?