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05-15-2020, 05:11 PM
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#4906
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Librocubicularist
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
Anything and Everything that changes requires a first cause.
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It requires a preceding cause or a simultaneous cause (such as quantum entanglement). It's not my fault if you don't (or can't, or choose not to) understand that.
__________________
Sapere aude
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05-15-2020, 06:09 PM
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#4907
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
Typical, childish retort. Look up the definition of "essence" or "nature".
And I'm done going down your stupid rabbit hole. I pointed out that cycles, life, death, expansion, contraction, etc. all involve CHANGE. And whatever changes, a cause is required. Therefore, your atheistic materialism reduces to the absurdity of infinite regress, which means your precisious, beloved scientism has NO answers whatsoever as to what caused the universe to come into existence.
At the end of the day, your utterly simple-minded, inane worldview with respect to origins can only be summed up with a circular statement: The universe is because it is.
Congratulations, Humpty.
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You define your god as immutable. Why? how do you know this? I gave you specific examples in your bible demonstrating he/she/it had a change of mind and heart. You claimed that wasn't god's "essence", and that does not change. So you propose pie in the sky ideas and define their properties. More pie in the sky.
Anyone may define anything whatever they wish whenever they want. The act of naming something does not explain it. How do you know your god is in fact unchanging, except by naming it as such? Your attempted explanation is itself an inline regress with arbitrary definitions..
The "essence" of God is immutable because I define it as such.
The "essence" of God is immutable because I define it as such.
The "essence" of God is immutable because I define it as such.
The "essence" of God is immutable because I define it as such.
Ad infinitum. We can play that same silly word game.
The "essence" of the universe is immutable because I define it as such
The "essence" of the universe is immutable because I define it as such
The "essence" of the universe is immutable because I define it as such
The "essence" of the universe is immutable because I define it as such
Ad infinitum.
__________________
The inmates have taken over the asylum.
Last edited by hcap; 05-15-2020 at 06:12 PM.
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05-15-2020, 06:39 PM
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#4908
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcap
You define your god as immutable. Why? how do you know this? I gave you specific examples in your bible demonstrating he/she/it had a change of mind and heart. You claimed that wasn't god's "essence", and that does not change. So you propose pie in the sky ideas and define their properties. More pie in the sky.
Anyone may define anything whatever they wish whenever they want. The act of naming something does not explain it. How do you know your god is in fact unchanging, except by naming it as such? Your attempted explanation is itself an inline regress with arbitrary definitions..
The "essence" of God is immutable because I define it as such.
The "essence" of God is immutable because I define it as such.
The "essence" of God is immutable because I define it as such.
The "essence" of God is immutable because I define it as such.
Ad infinitum. We can play that same silly word game.
The "essence" of the universe is immutable because I define it as such
The "essence" of the universe is immutable because I define it as such
The "essence" of the universe is immutable because I define it as such
The "essence" of the universe is immutable because I define it as such
Ad infinitum.
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Rational entities change their minds all the time, but that doesn't mean their nature also changes. Mind doesn't = nature or essence.
Furthermore, none of your examples showed that God changed his mind. All God did was work through man's sinful ways to accomplish his preordained purposes!
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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05-15-2020, 06:44 PM
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#4909
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor
It requires a preceding cause or a simultaneous cause (such as quantum entanglement). It's not my fault if you don't (or can't, or choose not to) understand that.
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The nature of every "cycle" is that something is changing; therefore, that change requires a cause -- in fact it requires a first cause.
Nature is filled with cycles. Water cycles. Tides. Weather cycles. Climate cycles. Seasonal cycles, etc., etc. All these have causes, including a first cause.
Moreover you had better sit down for this next one because you're going to be in for a huge : This universe, unlike your inane theoretical one dimensional example, is three dimensional.
Have a nice night.
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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05-15-2020, 07:09 PM
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#4910
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
Rational entities change their minds all the time, but that doesn't mean their nature also changes. Mind doesn't = nature or essence.
Furthermore, none of your examples showed that God changed his mind. All God did was work through man's sinful ways to accomplish his preordained purposes!
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What about my point.
Quote:
How do you know your god is in fact unchanging, except by naming it as such? Your attempted explanation is itself an infinite regress with arbitrary definitions..
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If you have the privileged of making up properties your god theoretically possesses, and telling us some pie in the sky speculation about your god's "essence" , which you can not explain, except by defining it as such, why can't I do the same with the universe? I can just as easily say the "essence" of the universe does not change? Because I define it as such
This is not the first time you played only silly circular word games.
A word of advice avoid any topic requiring critical thinking, particularity requiring any scientific and mathematical understanding, like the idiotic story you posted about face masks.
__________________
The inmates have taken over the asylum.
Last edited by hcap; 05-15-2020 at 07:10 PM.
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05-15-2020, 07:49 PM
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#4911
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcap
What about my point.
If you have the privileged of making up properties your god theoretically possesses, and telling us some pie in the sky speculation about your god's "essence" , which you can not explain, except by defining it as such, why can't I do the same with the universe? I can just as easily say the "essence" of the universe does not change? Because I define it as such
This is not the first time you played only silly circular word games.
A word of advice avoid any topic requiring critical thinking, particularity requiring any scientific and mathematical understanding, like the idiotic story you posted about face masks.
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I didn't make up any "properties" or attributes for God. God's attribute of Immutability is explicitly and implicitly taught throughout scripture.
And what part of the definition of "essence" or "nature" don't you get? When talking about a rational entity's nature or essence, we are making a statement about that entity's being. What that entity is.
When a rational entity changes his mind about something, this change of mind does not entail a corresponding change to his nature -- or his being -- or what he is -- or what his substance is!
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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05-15-2020, 08:01 PM
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#4912
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Librocubicularist
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
This universe, unlike your inane theoretical one dimensional example, is three dimensional.
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Learn to read. You missed the parenthetical where I said it can extend to infinite dimension. Three is between one and infinity.
Sorry, but as I said, if you cannot or will not understand it then I cannot help you.
__________________
Sapere aude
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05-15-2020, 08:11 PM
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#4913
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor
Learn to read. You missed the parenthetical where I said it can extend to infinite dimension. Three is between one and infinity.
Sorry, but as I said, if you cannot or will not understand it then I cannot help you.
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Give us a real world macro physics example of your endless cycle theory that has no causes -- some perpetual cycle that goes on in the physical world.
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
Last edited by boxcar; 05-15-2020 at 08:12 PM.
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05-15-2020, 08:18 PM
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#4914
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,388
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__________________
Live to play another day.
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05-15-2020, 08:22 PM
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#4915
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
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Jesus is the cure of what ails you, not the disease.
And I wouldn't put too much stock into what this commie pope preaches. He been dead from the neck up ever since he took his seat on his throne.
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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05-15-2020, 08:58 PM
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#4916
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 10,942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
Hopefully, this disease isn't contagious.
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Doesn’t matter. In the end there is only death. The joke will be on them. Eternity with worms.
__________________
All I needed in life I learned from Gary Larson.
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05-15-2020, 09:00 PM
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#4917
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJDave
Doesn’t matter. In the end there is only death. The joke will be on them. Eternity with worms.
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And they didn't even have fun while they lived...
__________________
Live to play another day.
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05-15-2020, 09:03 PM
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#4918
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 10,942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
And they didn't even have fun while they lived...
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Even better!
__________________
All I needed in life I learned from Gary Larson.
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05-15-2020, 09:22 PM
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#4919
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Librocubicularist
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
Give us a real world macro physics example of your endless cycle theory that has no causes -- some perpetual cycle that goes on in the physical world.
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Moving the goalposts! Go back and read what I posted. I can explain it to you. I can't understand it for you.
__________________
Sapere aude
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05-16-2020, 06:47 AM
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#4920
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
I didn't make up any "properties" or attributes for God. God's attribute of Immutability is explicitly and implicitly taught throughout scripture.
And what part of the definition of "essence" or "nature" don't you get? When talking about a rational entity's nature or essence, we are making a statement about that entity's being. What that entity is.
When a rational entity changes his mind about something, this change of mind does not entail a corresponding change to his nature -- or his being -- or what he is -- or what his substance is!
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The attributes and properties of your god may be defined and described by scripture, but in no way does it prove anything. Your scripture also told us the us the universe was created in six days.
You can jump up and down one one foot shouting "see I told you so" all day long, but we have no way of knowing it is so. Especially when you "interpret" what it all mean so pompously.
Word games on top of word games
__________________
The inmates have taken over the asylum.
Last edited by hcap; 05-16-2020 at 06:51 AM.
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