Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board

Go Back   Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board > Off Topic > Off Topic - General


Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old 04-04-2020, 03:15 PM   #4186
boxcar
Registered User
 
boxcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by hcap View Post
What don't you get that there numerous contraindications in the bible, and you can interpret the bible as a Rorschach test. You can see your own bias launched right back at you...... taking it literally. More religious wars were fought over words, killing thousands, than the few who looked for gems beneath the surface.

What don't you get about your shallow literal thinking?

And constantly making a fool of yourself asking "what don't you get?

Like an egoistic humorless pedantic stuck up schoolmarm!

Do the sons bear the sins of the fathers or not?

No, they don't.

(Deuteronomy 24:16) - "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin."
(Ezekiel 18:20)--"The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself."
I'm still waiting on your answer re Ezek 18:4? What part of it was above you pay grade level of understanding? You see...I'm at a loss to understand your whining, for you seem to think that man should enjoy divine prerogatives.

And doesn't the Cross of God's only begotten Son prove that love and justice are not mutually exclusive concepts?

And why are you going down the rabbit trail of alleged contradictions when we haven't quite finished up with the Exodus account yet? In fact, I have a question for you about that account: Who were the Victors and who were the Vanquished in that story? (Tough question, I know...but give it your best shot.)
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
boxcar is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-04-2020, 04:59 PM   #4187
hcap
Registered User
 
hcap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,398
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar View Post
I'm still waiting on your answer re Ezek 18:4? What part of it was above you pay grade level of understanding? You see...I'm at a loss to understand your whining, for you seem to think that man should enjoy divine prerogatives.
Hey bunky I answered you with (Ezekiel 18:20)--"The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself."

Which directly contradicts Ezek 18:4.

What don't you get about all them literal biblical contradictions?.....
And what part of being rational and logical don't you get?
__________________
The inmates have taken over the asylum.

Last edited by hcap; 04-04-2020 at 05:01 PM.
hcap is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-04-2020, 05:10 PM   #4188
boxcar
Registered User
 
boxcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by hcap View Post
Hey bunky I answered you with (Ezekiel 18:20)--"The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself."

Which directly contradicts Ezek 18:4.

What don't you get about all them literal biblical contradictions?.....
And what part of being rational and logical don't you get?
There's no contradiction! Where is the contradiction!?
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
boxcar is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-04-2020, 07:37 PM   #4189
hcap
Registered User
 
hcap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,398
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar View Post
There's no contradiction! Where is the contradiction!?
Do the sons bear the sins of the fathers or not?

They do....

9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
...(Deuteronomy 5:8-10)

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
. (Exodus 20:4-6)


They don't

Deuteronomy 24:16

16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20

20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


???????
__________________
The inmates have taken over the asylum.
hcap is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-04-2020, 08:45 PM   #4190
boxcar
Registered User
 
boxcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by hcap View Post
Do the sons bear the sins of the fathers or not?

They do....

9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
...(Deuteronomy 5:8-10)

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
. (Exodus 20:4-6)


They don't

Deuteronomy 24:16

16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20

20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


???????
Two things: The first is that the latter two passages do not contradict Ezek 18:4, as you said earlier.

Secondly, Deut 5:8-10 does not say what you think it says! You truly do have a huge reading comp problem. There is so much irony in the junk you post on this forum because you think that you're the sharpest tool in the shed around here, when in fact you are one of the dullest!

Let's briefly look at this passage. The first thing we notice is that the text is dealing with just one specific sin -- that being idolatry.

Secondly, the above is further borne out by the term "iniquity" which is in singular form.

Thirdly, you conveniently overlook the fact that the children upon whom the Lord visits the fathers' iniquity -- to the third and fourth generation -- is couched in a statement that is qualified. You overlook the last phrase which says of them that hate Me! Therefore, God does not "visit" the fathers' sin of idolatry upon all children indiscriminately -- but to those who already hate God! And this is further reinforced by the following contrasting phrase in which God promises to love all those who love Him and keep his commandments. (So much for unconditional love!)

The sin of idolatry was particularly onus to God -- a great abomination to Him who created these people, made a covenant with them, delivered them from the bondage of the Egyptians and cared for them in the wilderness.

To "visit" the iniquity of the idolatrous fathers to those who hate God simply means that he appoints for those children to sin like their fathers sinned! (You know..."like father, like son"?). It is punishment in the sense that He decrees or ordains that they follow in the footsteps of their forefathers' idolatrous ways! Because the children hate God, God is hostile toward them in return. In essence, He gives them over to a reprobate mind.

This is what the passage is teaching. For a NT version of this passage, see Rom 1:18-32.

So, let me ask you again: What part of Ezek 18:4 don't you get? And why do you think created creatures should share in the Creator's divine prerogatives?
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
boxcar is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-05-2020, 05:18 AM   #4191
Actor
Librocubicularist
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,466
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar View Post
...
Also yet again, do any of those forms of alternative medicine work?
__________________
Sapere aude
Actor is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-05-2020, 05:56 AM   #4192
hcap
Registered User
 
hcap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Convolution
Let's briefly look at this passage. The first thing we notice is that the text is dealing with just one specific sin -- that being idolatry.
You are just playing word games after silly word games. This is crystal clear buinky, no matter your rabbit hole theology. Idolatry or no idolatry.

Exodus 20:5
You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,

First, why is your version of god a "jealous god"? And who or what is your one dimensional god jealous of?

If the folks he created, (evidently doing a half ass job), began to worship another deity, what should your god do about it? In Exodus he "hardened" the heart of Pharaoh.

"And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses."


Why couldn't your god "soften" the hearts of his own children NOT TO stray?
He denied free will to Pharaoh, yet allows his own to stumble with their gift of free will. I went to Hebrew school afternoons after public school, when I was a kid, couldn't god just have educated his own?

Maybe "gifting" them with the sins of their parents, Adam and Eve, and then
I guess killing all the first born of Egypt, did not ensue a whole lot of trust in the Israelite? After all your version of god is Omnipotence, Omniscience, and Omnipresence. Why is he, (she or it), also jealous and irrational. ? Man talk about a disconnect in your brain and a contradiction you can not see.

What part of "jealous and irrational" don't you get?
__________________
The inmates have taken over the asylum.

Last edited by hcap; 04-05-2020 at 06:10 AM.
hcap is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-05-2020, 08:51 AM   #4193
boxcar
Registered User
 
boxcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by hcap View Post
You are just playing word games after silly word games. This is crystal clear buinky, no matter your rabbit hole theology. Idolatry or no idolatry.

Exodus 20:5
You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,

First, why is your version of god a "jealous god"? And who or what is your one dimensional god jealous of?

If the folks he created, (evidently doing a half ass job), began to worship another deity, what should your god do about it? In Exodus he "hardened" the heart of Pharaoh.

"And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses."


Why couldn't your god "soften" the hearts of his own children NOT TO stray?
He denied free will to Pharaoh, yet allows his own to stumble with their gift of free will. I went to Hebrew school afternoons after public school, when I was a kid, couldn't god just have educated his own?

Maybe "gifting" them with the sins of their parents, Adam and Eve, and then
I guess killing all the first born of Egypt, did not ensue a whole lot of trust in the Israelite? After all your version of god is Omnipotence, Omniscience, and Omnipresence. Why is he, (she or it), also jealous and irrational. ? Man talk about a disconnect in your brain and a contradiction you can not see.

What part of "jealous and irrational" don't you get?
Neither "jealousy" or "irrational" were parts of your original claim that the above passage contradicted other portions of scripture that you specifically quoted. Your claim, essentially, was that God punished future generations of children FOR their fathers' sins, and this is not true. The passage is not teaching that. The two passages are saying that God "punishes" those who [already] hate Him by giving them over TO their fathers' sin of idolatry .

Secondly, God did not deny free will to Pharaoh! Quite the contrary! God gave Pharaoh over to his own corrupted, carnal, profane, sinful will! God in fact, tried to persuade Pharaoh to change his mind by visiting 9 plagues upon him, his land and his people but Pharaoh stubbornly refused to obey God.

Thirdly, God is under no moral obligation to "soften" anyone's heart toward him. God is only morally obligated to act in a righteous manner! God doesn't and never will soften the hearts of any of the fallen angels, for example. Every single one of them are appointed to eternal destruction in hell! But when God does soften the hearts of his elect, this is an act of pure grace on his part; however, this grace , too, is grounded firmly in his love AND righteousness (justice), which find their ultimate expression in the Cross of His only Begotten Son Jesus Christ. Without Jesus paying the sin debt of God's elect sinners, no one could be saved -- no heart could be "softened". God, in Christ, put Himself on the hook for the sins of his people! Or as scripture puts it:

2 Cor 5:18-19
18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them.
NIV

Or to put this another way, Jesus totally satisfied God's demand for justice!

1 John 4:10
10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
NASB

Finally, I have addressed your non sequitur -- the jealousy issue -- in the recent past. Jealousy is not always an evil disposition of heart anymore than anger is! There is a righteous jealousy just as there is a righteous anger. If your wife goes out and has an affair with a younger, handsome guy, you wouldn't rightfully feel jealousy in your heart!? If you say, you wouldn't, then I would have to question your love for her. At best it would have to be lukewarm and I can't even tolerate that in my
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
boxcar is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-05-2020, 08:54 AM   #4194
boxcar
Registered User
 
boxcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor View Post
Also yet again, do any of those forms of alternative medicine work?
This kind of question betrays your unmitigated arrogance, clearly implying that the West has a mortal lock on medicine.
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
boxcar is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-05-2020, 12:14 PM   #4195
hcap
Registered User
 
hcap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,398
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar View Post
Neither "jealousy" or "irrational" were parts of your original claim that the above passage contradicted other portions of scripture that you specifically quoted. Your claim, essentially, was that God punished future generations of children FOR their fathers' sins, and this is not true. The passage is not teaching that. The two passages are saying that God "punishes" those who [already] hate Him by giving them over TO their fathers' sin of idolatry .
You told me I must learn o think like your murderous god.
Will do so using current geopolitics.

Ok, I am the president of a great country. Some might say a petulant infantile jealous president. Not the some, captivated by my rapid unexpected glitzy, shmaltzy showbizz rise to fame. At loyal gatherings my divine flock, cheer and wave devoutly. But often the"commie" press core doesn't genuflect and profess their undying love for me and my family. They jealously prefer another who served in the white house of a darker previous smarter president. And even an old time Jew not too fond of me today.

What bullshit. Don't they knows I am their president, their one and only president? There can be no other!


Howe dare they! I'll show them my presidential wrath! Who says presidents must behave providentially, and can't be angry, mad and crazy jealous?

I order their deaths, their children's, grandchildren's and great
grandchildren's death.

It's good to be god, eh oops, president!

No substitute for thinking like me, or for thinking I am a god

Is that what you mean about thinking as your huffin' and a puffin' jealous god bunky?
__________________
The inmates have taken over the asylum.

Last edited by hcap; 04-05-2020 at 12:21 PM.
hcap is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-05-2020, 12:36 PM   #4196
boxcar
Registered User
 
boxcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by hcap View Post
You told me I must learn o think like your murderous god.
(emphasis mine)

Nope, never said that. You're lying again.

Quote:
Will do so using current geopolitics.
Good. Do it solitaire style. I'm not interested in your infantile games.
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
boxcar is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-05-2020, 12:58 PM   #4197
Greyfox
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 18,962
Quote:
Originally Posted by hcap View Post
You told me I must learn o think like your murderous god.
Will do so using current geopolitics.
Wow! You really do have a TDS virus infection raging.
Greyfox is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-05-2020, 01:00 PM   #4198
hcap
Registered User
 
hcap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,398
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar View Post
(emphasis mine)

Nope, never said that. You're lying again.



Good. Do it solitaire style. I'm not interested in your infantile games.
It is obvious to any objective human with 1/2 a brain, any "being", whether in charge of a nation, or universe, is not worthy of an iota of respect, let alone an iota of worship, if that "being" is transparently infantile, petulant and murderously jealous and revengeful.

Unless that "being" is the star of a Saturday morning cartoon show.
Know any? And the artwork is decent of course.
__________________
The inmates have taken over the asylum.
hcap is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-05-2020, 01:06 PM   #4199
boxcar
Registered User
 
boxcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by hcap View Post
It is obvious to any objective human with 1/2 a brain, any "being", whether in charge of a nation, or universe, is not worthy of an iota of respect, let alone an iota of worship, if that "being" is transparently infantile, petulant and murderously jealous and revengeful.

Unless that "being" is the star of a Saturday morning cartoon show.
Know any? And the artwork is decent of course.
As it is written:

Rev 22:11a
11 Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile...
NIV
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
boxcar is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-05-2020, 01:06 PM   #4200
hcap
Registered User
 
hcap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyfox View Post
Wow! You really do have a TDS virus infection raging.
Seemed like an apt analogy.

Could not think of a less worthy idol to illustrate idolatry on both on earth and heaven.

Thinking of the divine literally is idolatry. Hope I made my point.
__________________
The inmates have taken over the asylum.
hcap is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Advertisement
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999 - 2023 -- PaceAdvantage.Com -- All Rights Reserved
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program
designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.