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View Poll Results: How soon should synthetic surfaces be removed where the weather is not a big factor?
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Immediately
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79 |
64.23% |
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< 1 year
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8 |
6.50% |
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< 3 years
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4 |
3.25% |
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Keep them
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32 |
26.02% |
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08-01-2009, 10:23 AM
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#31
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,887
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Greyfox
Tom: What is your problem with Del Mar? Please expand.
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The track is about as predictable as craps. I'll play the turf, but I do not even bother looking at the plasticrap races anymore. To be fair, I feel the same about Keeneland - turf, yes, plasticrap - no way.
I always draw a line through any line from KEE or Dmr and totally ignore what the horse did - I chlkk them up to exercise and no way an indicator of anything.
And also to be fair, when they were both dirt, I thought they both sucked and were the worst racing anywhere.
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
Last edited by Tom; 08-01-2009 at 10:26 AM.
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08-01-2009, 11:02 AM
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#32
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Andy, you are forgetting one other huge lie about synthetics...no biases. We heard over and over again how these surfaces could eliminate unfair advantages to certain horses. However, it has been exactly the opposite. The biases are more extreme, occur more often, and to my mind can be easily manipulated by track personnel.
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08-01-2009, 11:06 AM
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#33
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Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,908
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cj
Andy, you are forgetting one other huge lie about synthetics...no biases. We heard over and over again how these surfaces could eliminate unfair advantages to certain horses. However, it has been exactly the opposite. The biases are more extreme, occur more often, and to my mind can be easily manipulated by track personnel.
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Absolutely! I'll put that one in my holster for my next shootout!
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08-01-2009, 11:13 AM
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,128
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Regarding the safety of various surfaces, might I make an observation? Suppose you concentrate on the stretch runs of races run on dirt vs. those on a poly surface. Now, (take Belmont, big sandy) watch those front end horses as they bear down for home...most of the cheaper races will evince frightening examples of the 'blind staggers'....horses barely able to maintain a straight course and obviously tired. I've noted this in better quality races as well of course, but aren't most of the breakdowns on track, statistically, happening amongst the cheaper horses?
senortout
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08-01-2009, 11:17 AM
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#35
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Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,908
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Roger Stein show goes over the synthetic controversy at Del Mar and other problems at Del Mar on Today’s show 8-1
http://www.am830klaa.com/index.htm Live show weekends at 8:00 am PST!
http://www.rogerstein.com/radio/archive2.asp Archived show up 1 hour after live show!
Briefly mentions HANA in the show!
Last edited by andymays; 08-01-2009 at 11:21 AM.
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08-01-2009, 11:38 AM
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#36
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: massapequa park ny
Posts: 2,164
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i am a ny player and do not regard the nyra in a favorable light.The one thing they did get right is the winter inner track at aqueduct.I know early speed reigns their but that is due to the very tight turns...it was and i think still is one of the safest tracks in america and definitely the safest cold weather track.In my opinion the poly is not anormal surface to run on it gets soft in the heat due to the wax and like 46 said it is somewhat greasy and sticky. I think it will go the way of astroturf .....maybe they will refine it and come up with a better product.Its an expensive mistake they will need to admit to!
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08-01-2009, 12:51 PM
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#37
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Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,908
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This from Mike Marten of the CHRB after I sent him a copy of the Poll.
Thanks Andy. This is useful information.
As you know, the racing commissioners indicated several months ago that they would seriously consider any requests from racetracks to switch back to dirt. As yet, none of the racing associations have made such a request. We issued a news release at the time, which I am pasting below.
All the best,
Mike Marten
The racing commissioners indicated their willingness to consider requests, on a case-by-case basis,
for a waiver from the CHRB rule requiring a synthetic surface at any racetrack operating four or
more weeks of continuous thoroughbred racing in a calendar year. Santa Anita Park, Golden Gate
Fields, Hollywood Park, and Del Mar all replaced their dirt tracks with a synthetic, engineered
surface. Should one of those locations decide to switch back to dirt, or should a fair or other
California racetrack not currently offering four or more weeks of thoroughbred racing decide to offer
such racing, and not wish to install a synthetic surface, it would be the “sense of the Board” to
seriously consider granting a waiver, explained Chairman Harris. He said this formalizes the Board
policy already demonstrated by the granting of a waiver to Bay Meadows in 2007.
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08-01-2009, 12:58 PM
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#38
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wyoming, near Yellowstone Park...born/raised in Brooklyn,NY
Posts: 7,557
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cj
Andy, you are forgetting one other huge lie about synthetics...no biases. We heard over and over again how these surfaces could eliminate unfair advantages to certain horses. However, it has been exactly the opposite. The biases are more extreme, occur more often, and to my mind can be easily manipulated by track personnel.
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 Excellent...no one else brought that up!!
__________________
joanied
"All we have to do is decide what to do with the time that is given to us"
Gandalf the Grey
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08-01-2009, 01:00 PM
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#39
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wyoming, near Yellowstone Park...born/raised in Brooklyn,NY
Posts: 7,557
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by andymays
Absolutely! I'll put that one in my holster for my next shootout!
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Put it in your 7mm rifle, andymays...it's loaded for bear!!! Great point, cj brought up
__________________
joanied
"All we have to do is decide what to do with the time that is given to us"
Gandalf the Grey
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08-02-2009, 01:04 AM
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#40
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 16,487
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by FUGITIVE77
Tragic accident for Rene Douglas at AP but do you think Mr D is ever going to pay to have it removed?
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As much as I hate the fact that AP/CDI bowed to public pressure and put in that awful surface, it had nothing to do with Douglas' injury.
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08-02-2009, 05:47 AM
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#41
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 2,255
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cj
Andy, you are forgetting one other huge lie about synthetics...no biases. We heard over and over again how these surfaces could eliminate unfair advantages to certain horses. However, it has been exactly the opposite. The biases are more extreme, occur more often, and to my mind can be easily manipulated by track personnel.
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What are the biases in particular?
jdl
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08-02-2009, 08:30 AM
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#42
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Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,908
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jonnielu
What are the biases in particular?
jdl
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Post #285 on the "slowly but surely synthetic thread"! Many biases are caused by maintenance! They change daily!
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08-02-2009, 10:08 AM
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#43
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 2,255
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by andymays
Post #285 on the "slowly but surely synthetic thread"! Many biases are caused by maintenance! They change daily!
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Actually, my question was directed at CJ.
I read that post, and I don't see where any bias is shown as being related to polytrack. The rail is always the shortest distance to cover, and Saturday racing is naturally biased (if you are looking for something to call a bias) toward favs more than Wednesdays.
jdl
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08-02-2009, 03:22 PM
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#44
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jonnielu
What are the biases in particular?
jdl
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Well, it depends on the maintenance. Like any other track, there are path biases and there are positional biases.
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08-02-2009, 03:23 PM
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#45
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by andymays
Post #285 on the "slowly but surely synthetic thread"! Many biases are caused by maintenance! They change daily!
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Not only daily, but in some cases a few times each racing day.
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