"Proprietary Knowledge"

[PaceAdvantage]

TLG brings up an excellent point to mountainman, but because of who he is, he gets the usual shit thrown his way...allow me to clear the air:

Mountainman states this in his OP:

Originally Posted by Mountainman

In my opinion, there is an ethical imperative for anyone who sells books on handicapping or is paid to talk about handicapping, to hold back nothing (time or space permitting) relevant to their immediate topic.

Now, TLG comes into the discussion with something Mountainman wrote a while ago:

Originally Posted by Mountainman

But if I started to spill things about their stock that i'm only aware of because of my morning job, they would lynch me. Literally. There is a confidence between horsemen and officials that I won't violate. And I doubt the superiors I respect and answer to at Mnr would approve of me crossing that line. The boundaries don't solely exclude me giving info about mnr's vet's or steward's list. I also can't divulge anything concerning claims I might be aware of, or dish that a horse, for instance, was entered at the office's behest to fill a race.

I have bolded some very relevant points. At the top of this thread, Mountainman states in no uncertain terms that as someone who is PAID TO TALK ABOUT HANDICAPPING (his words, and the reader must assume that Mountainman and TLG are BOTH paid to talk about handicapping, everyday, on the air), NOTHING is to be HELD BACK relevant to their immediate topic.

Isn't a horse who was entered at the behest of the racing office to fill a race something that EVERY RACING FAN WOULD WANT TO KNOW? And isn't Mountainman, if he is holding back this knowledge from the fan, going against what he said in the original post? Perhaps there is a conflict of interest here with Mountainman both as an on-air personality and a backstretch or racing office employee. But this is his thread, and perhaps he didn't mean to include the likes of himself and TLG when he wrote "PAID TO TALK ABOUT HANDICAPPING."

How exactly is this apples to oranges?

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by the little guy

You took a massive, and undeserved, shot at me in this thread. Even if you had misread what I said, was it really necessary to become nasty?

Andy,

You know damn well if someone said to you "not your best day for reading comprehension," you would have come back swinging. Come on, I want you to be honest.

[Relwob Owner]

Originally Posted by the little guy

Oh for God's sake....I was fukking joking.

I give up.

Why give up? You told him he has a reading comprehension problem and he didnt see it as a joke. Frankly, I didnt either.....then, later, you chide him that he has an agenda...well, you came into the thread and brought a past post from the thread starter....wouldnt that qualify as having an agenda too?

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Exotic1

If the author, by general consensus, discloses a complete methodology, then that author has fulfilled their obligation. Wait for version 2 or version 3 for a supplement or revision.

What if the author presents a methodology which can only be properly implemented if the reader buys figures from the author...at a price of $20 a day per track.

Has he fulfilled his obligation to the reader?

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

Andy,

You know damn well if someone said to you "not your best day for reading comprehension," you would have come back swinging. Come on, I want you to be honest.

Can we move this to PMs so as not to divert this anymore please?

[PaceAdvantage]

Hey, it's the Relwob and Saratoga Mike tag team...funny how only the tag team of CJ and PA get recognized...

[PaceAdvantage]

We can start by acknowledging my awesome #46 reply.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Hey, it's the Relwob and Saratoga Mike tag team...funny how only the tag team of CJ and PA get recognized...

There are plenty of tag teams - there's you and CJ, Dahoss and Cardus, four or five of the takeout guys. I like and respect many of these people, so not trying to offend them, just stating a fact.

[Fat Syd]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

We can start by acknowledging my awesome #46 reply.

Nice reply. Anyway as a new reader and poster I would hope TLG sticks around. He is a well spoken handicapper on the nations most important circut. Having jerks run him off, would suck for the people looking to enjoy and grow in the sport. Or we can just talk about Zenyatta forever?

[Relwob Owner]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

TLG brings up an excellent point to mountainman, but because of who he is, he gets the usual shit thrown his way...allow me to clear the air:

Mountainman states this in his OP:

Now, TLG comes into the discussion with something Mountainman wrote a while ago:

I have bolded some very relevant points. At the top of this thread, Mountainman states in no uncertain terms that as someone who is PAID TO TALK ABOUT HANDICAPPING (his words, and the reader must assume that Mountainman and TLG are BOTH paid to talk about handicapping, everyday, on the air), NOTHING is to be HELD BACK relevant to their immediate topic.

Isn't a horse who was entered at the behest of the racing office to fill a race something that EVERY RACING FAN WOULD WANT TO KNOW? And isn't Mountainman, if he is holding back this knowledge from the fan, going against what he said in the original post? Perhaps there is a conflict of interest here with Mountainman both as an on-air personality and a backstretch or racing office employee. But this is his thread, and perhaps he didn't mean to include the likes of himself and TLG when he wrote "PAID TO TALK ABOUT HANDICAPPING."

How exactly is this apples to oranges?

Yes, you have bolded some relevant points but left out some too...in this thread, he clearly talks about THEORIES and METHODS.....in the other, he is referring to info from horseman about specific horses....that isnt a theory or method....that is a totally different thing, hence the apples and oranges....

[Relwob Owner]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Hey, it's the Relwob and Saratoga Mike tag team...funny how only the tag team of CJ and PA get recognized...

Well, I guess we are on the map now.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Relwob Owner

Yes, you have bolded some relevant points but left out some too...in this thread, he clearly talks about THEORIES and METHODS.....in the other, he is referring to info from horseman about specific horses....that isnt a theory or method....that is a totally different thing, hence the apples and oranges....

It's all there in the first sentence:

"In my opinion, there is an ethical imperative for anyone who sells books on handicapping or is paid to talk about handicapping, to hold back nothing (time or space permitting) relevant to their immediate topic."

He clearly makes a distinction between those who sell books and those PAID TO TALK, and lumps them under the same "ethical imperative to hold back nothing."

PAID TO TALK about handicapping. Are not both mountainman and TLG PAID TO TALK ABOUT HANDICAPPING?

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Relwob Owner

Well, I guess we are on the map now.

Now?

[Fat Syd]

Originally Posted by Relwob Owner

Yes, you have bolded some relevant points but left out some too...in this thread, he clearly talks about THEORIES and METHODS.....in the other, he is referring to info from horseman about specific horses....that isnt a theory or method....that is a totally different thing, hence the apples and oranges....

Actually, if a trainers suggested to a handicapper that his METHOD for enhancing a horses chance in a coming races was the reason why he/she liked the horses chances it would be exactly what TLG was referring to.

"I trained the horse this way" or " I made a change to what we were doing this way" are all types of methodology that could impact a 'cappers opinion.

[Relwob Owner]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Now?

I should have put "officially" on the map!