Some are questioning....

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Um, two of Arrogate's last three races don't reflect well on Baffert.

cause the horse didint run well? I dont see how that is a condemnation of baffert. the horse was fine physically. these are animals not machines

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

cause the horse didint run well? I dont see how that is a condemnation of baffert. the horse was fine physically. these are animals not machines

The horse was short. The previous poost claimed Baffert never brought a short horse to a big race.

[GaryG]

Point Given was short for the derby. I believe Baffert said that he made the mistake of training him for the TC instead of the derby. PG won the Preakness and Belmont and I am pretty sure Monarchos never won another race.

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by GaryG

Point Given was short for the derby. I believe Baffert said that he made the mistake of training him for the TC instead of the derby. PG won the Preakness and Belmont and I am pretty sure Monarchos never won another race.

Monarchos was interesting. I remember 30 seconds after the race my father said to me..... “that horse will never win again”

He went on to tell me how there is a place you can push them to only once. They never recover.........

[Rex Phinney]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Um, two of Arrogate's last three races don't reflect well on Baffert.

You’re forgetting all the things people were saying about Arrogate before the Pegasus. Lots of people were convinced the horse wasn’t right and he showed up and hammered that field.

It’s not Baffert’s fault if the horse just lost it. Aroogate just faded to finish his career. Arrogate lost a step, plain and simple. Nothing Baffert could have done to change that.

That’s small potatoes compared to, for example Pletcher. Who got Uncle Mo’s ass kicked repeatedly, never figured out Quality Road and then the big cherry on top named Life at Ten.

When it comes to training a champion horse and bringing the horse in to turn in a quality effort Baffert is untouchable. No one can win every race, but if it’s a prized horse in a big money situation no way will Baffert run anything but his fastest bullet.

If Justify shows up for the Preakness he will win by open lengths. No question. This race won’t have anyone in the same galaxy as him talent wise.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by Rex Phinney

You’re forgetting all the things people were saying about Arrogate before the Pegasus. Lots of people were convinced the horse wasn’t right and he showed up and hammered that field.

It’s not Baffert’s fault if the horse just lost it. Aroogate just faded to finish his career. Arrogate lost a step, plain and simple. Nothing Baffert could have done to change that.

That’s small potatoes compared to, for example Pletcher. Who got Uncle Mo’s ass kicked repeatedly, never figured out Quality Road and then the big cherry on top named Life at Ten.

When it comes to training a champion horse and bringing the horse in to turn in a quality effort Baffert is untouchable. No one can win every race, but if it’s a prized horse in a big money situation no way will Baffert run anything but his fastest bullet.

If Justify shows up for the Preakness he will win by open lengths. No question. This race won’t have anyone in the same galaxy as him talent wise.

A horse doesn't "lose a step" after a whopping 3 top races in a whopping 11 race career.

[Vinnie]

Unusually and most peculiarly Arrogate did just that...

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by Vinnie

Unusually and most peculiarly Arrogate did just that...

[Prioress Ply]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

In 1988 Criminal Type won the Santa Anita Derby as a six year old. Super Diamond won a GII the next year as a 9 year old. Fourstardave was winning stakes races when he was 10. Wake me the next time any of Baffert's "championship horses" make it to that age and remain on top. It's a fair question to ask why.

[Grits]

This is an honest question that I can't fully recall an answer to. Maybe Spaulding would know...given he has, I swear, a photographic memory!

Have any of Bob's champions gone on to become leading sires, or better yet, sire of sires. I can't recall a one. If not, why not?

I was only able to find this, in addition to remembering Silver Charm, Real Quiet, Point Given, War Emblem, Silver Bullet Day, a couple of others. But you all may know far more than me. I only recall his champions that have "flattened out" in the breeding shed.

http://bradleythoroughbreds.com/trainers/bob-baffert/

[GMB@BP]

Midnight Lute

[cj]

Originally Posted by Grits

This is an honest question that I can't fully recall an answer to. Maybe Spaulding would know...given he has, I swear, a photographic memory!

Have any of Bob's champions gone on to become leading sires, or better yet, sire of sires. I can't recall a one. If not, why not?

I was only able to find this, in addition to remembering Silver Charm, Real Quiet, Point Given, War Emblem, Silver Bullet Day, a couple of others. But you all may know far more than me. I only recall his champions that have "flattened out" in the breeding shed.

http://bradleythoroughbreds.com/trainers/bob-baffert/

Silverbulletday was never going to be a leading sire.

[Rex Phinney]

Originally Posted by Prioress Ply

In 1988 Criminal Type won the Santa Anita Derby as a six year old. Super Diamond won a GII the next year as a 9 year old. Fourstardave was winning stakes races when he was 10. Wake me the next time any of Baffert's "championship horses" make it to that age and remain on top. It's a fair question to ask why.

I don't know much about Criminal Type, but I think it's safe to say he did not win the Santa Anita Derby at age 6...

I do know that Baffert trained Game on Dude won the Santa Anita Handicap at age 7. He did it in 1:58 and change and beat Will Take Charge and Mucho Macho Man.

Breeding is the overwhelmingly simple answer to your question of why Baffert's horses don't stay on top longer. Baffert cannot control when the horses are retired to stud, the higher up on the quality scale you go the sooner they are retired.

[Grits]

Originally Posted by cj

Silverbulletday was never going to be a leading sire.

Dis is true...very good observation!

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Rex Phinney

You’re forgetting all the things people were saying about Arrogate before the Pegasus. Lots of people were convinced the horse wasn’t right and he showed up and hammered that field.

It’s not Baffert’s fault if the horse just lost it. Aroogate just faded to finish his career. Arrogate lost a step, plain and simple. Nothing Baffert could have done to change that.

That’s small potatoes compared to, for example Pletcher. Who got Uncle Mo’s ass kicked repeatedly, never figured out Quality Road and then the big cherry on top named Life at Ten.

When it comes to training a champion horse and bringing the horse in to turn in a quality effort Baffert is untouchable. No one can win every race, but if it’s a prized horse in a big money situation no way will Baffert run anything but his fastest bullet.

If Justify shows up for the Preakness he will win by open lengths. No question. This race won’t have anyone in the same galaxy as him talent wise.

I actually agree with your overall point. I just don't think it is true that Baffert never runs a short horse. He is obviously much better than Pletcher.