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Old 11-24-2018, 01:43 PM   #16
v j stauffer
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Originally Posted by linrom1 View Post
Occam Razor and the end-result always justifies decisions in business driven by profit. In this case the situation speaks for itself. There is no justification for the double DQ otherwise.

Racing stewards are just as impartial as Executive Compensation Committees, perhaps less so.

Too many people assume that others will act and think ethically as they do; in most situations involving profit, one must assume the worst intention to come up with the correct assessment.

Therefore it is my conclusion that the DQ was solely made on Jackpot ramification.
If you're correct how would the Stewards benefit?
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Old 11-24-2018, 01:51 PM   #17
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If you're correct how would the Stewards benefit?
Not commenting on this particular call, but let's not pretend that Churchill and the KHRC aren't in bed together.
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Old 11-24-2018, 01:54 PM   #18
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Not commenting on this particular call, but let's not pretend that Churchill and the KHRC aren't in bed together.
I can't speak to KY. I'd like to think that's not the case. I will say it's not that way in California. In fact the CHRB and the tracks often have contentious, adversarial discourse.
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Old 11-24-2018, 01:56 PM   #19
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Maybe it's a trick question and Churchill money goes completely out (or even to the detriment) of the State??

If not, the technical distinction of management, is silly.


Either way, I don't think this was very likely to be a 'fix'.

linrom mentioned Occam's razor, ... this is more likely related to Hanlon's razor
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Last edited by Robert Fischer; 11-24-2018 at 01:57 PM.
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Old 11-24-2018, 02:10 PM   #20
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This is a HoF thread. Easy DQ to make first of all. How it can be questioned by even a casual fan is beyond me. Second, and more importantly, is that if you all think track management and the stewards, and the the owners, and jockeys, and the whales are all on the take....WHY DO YOU KEEP COMING BACK?
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Old 11-24-2018, 02:14 PM   #21
v j stauffer
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Maybe it's a trick question and Churchill money goes completely out (or even to the detriment) of the State??

If not, the technical distinction of management, is silly.


Either way, I don't think this was very likely to be a 'fix'.

linrom mentioned Occam's razor, ... this is more likely related to Hanlon's razor
I'm VERY sure there's no FIX. The Stewards did their job regulating the races. The association did their job running the track. For you to be right management would have had to call the Stewards stand during the deliberation and tell them how they wanted the order of finish to come out.

Does anybody REALLY think that call took place? C'mon people.

I've never met a Steward in my life that wouldn't tell whomever was on the other side of the phone to F-OFF, hang up and go about the important business of deciding the inquiry.
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Old 11-24-2018, 02:17 PM   #22
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I can't speak to KY. I'd like to think that's not the case. I will say it's not that way in California. In fact the CHRB and the tracks often have contentious, adversarial discourse.
But this is Kentucky, and every decision ever made by them has favored Churchill and Keeneland over anything and anyone else. There have been many threads about it, notably the latest decision about a harness license.

I'd find it hard to be believe that those tracks had no say over which stewards are hired, fired, renewed, whatever. I'd hope I'm wrong but I'd also be very surprised if I am.
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Old 11-24-2018, 02:17 PM   #23
Andy Asaro
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A jackpot carryover like they one they have going on brings in huge money on mandatory payout day. Guessing at least a couple million in new money if it isn't hit today. Additionally handle goes up dramatically on all the other races.

And Stewards don't bet just like Umpires in Baseball and Referee's in Football and Basketball don't bet.

Likely a coincidence but you never know.

A

Last edited by Andy Asaro; 11-24-2018 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 11-24-2018, 02:19 PM   #24
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Yet another "worst DQ ever." It's so hard to keep up with them

I use Allemeuse, a five length winner that was disqualified at 7:1, but was actually the wrong horse...something Jerry Bailey told the Stewards during the inquiry, as the barometer for worst DQ ever. None of the 50 supposed worst DQs ever from 2018 come even close to that.
I agree .. Allemeuse wasn't even near the horse that pushed the gray horse over the rail at the top of the stretch on the Saratoga turf (back in the 80's).
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Old 11-24-2018, 02:25 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by v j stauffer View Post
This was a simple, easy call.
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Originally Posted by v j stauffer View Post
Very tough call but as I said I think they made the correct call.
Ladies and gentlemen, please note: v j stauffer has been DISQUALIFIED and placed LAST for interference in this thread.

As you can see from the quoted thread footage, v j stauffer lugged out severely against several other posters at the top of the lane only to come back in sharply in deep stretch, crowding even more posters near the wire.

For this, the stewards had no choice but to disqualify v j stauffer and place him LAST.

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There's NEVER been a horse DQ'ed for going straight. Never.
Gate Dancer, 1984 Breeder's Cup Classic.
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Old 11-24-2018, 02:26 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by v j stauffer View Post
For you to be right management would have had to call the Stewards stand during the deliberation and tell them how they wanted the order of finish to come out.

I've said repeatedly, that I do not believe that there was a 'fix'.

I think it was very likely to be 'incompetence'.

In the long-shot chance that this was a call influenced/decided by the carryover, there need not be a phone-call.

It's not hard to imagine that the stewards are aware of the carryover situation.
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Last edited by Robert Fischer; 11-24-2018 at 02:29 PM.
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Old 11-24-2018, 02:28 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by v j stauffer View Post
I'm VERY sure there's no FIX. The Stewards did their job regulating the races. The association did their job running the track. For you to be right management would have had to call the Stewards stand during the deliberation and tell them how they wanted the order of finish to come out.

Does anybody REALLY think that call took place? C'mon people.

I've never met a Steward in my life that wouldn't tell whomever was on the other side of the phone to F-OFF, hang up and go about the important business of deciding the inquiry.
Come on, you think they didn't know the circumstances. Impossible. Regardless of what you think of the decision, no way they didn't know the repercussions.
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Old 11-24-2018, 02:30 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by v j stauffer View Post
I can't speak to KY. I'd like to think that's not the case. I will say it's not that way in California. In fact the CHRB and the tracks often have contentious, adversarial discourse.
So, there must have been a few contentious split decisions among the Stewards that you've worked with.....Tell me about a heated split decision that you were involved with, and the outcome...
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Old 11-24-2018, 02:33 PM   #29
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I'm not suggesting anything is Fixed.... at all. My personal opinion is that there are far to many inquires to begin with, and that racing is a tough racket, and horses are wild animals and shit happens and we should let it happen.

Isn't it the same racing experts who always remind us
  • We are the only athletes who are followed around by an ambulance?
  • We take our life in out hands everytime we get up on a mount!
  • We are on a 1000 pound animal going 40 MPH while making split second decisions

And trainers.. "he has a lot to learn"... "he's head strong"... so on so on.....

But let one of them move laterally 2 feet and its DISQUALIFIED!....by a State employee. Who may or may not have ever made a wager in his or her life.


Let them run I say. And let it be rough out there...
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Old 11-24-2018, 02:42 PM   #30
v j stauffer
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Ladies and gentlemen, please note: v j stauffer has been DISQUALIFIED and placed LAST for interference in this thread.

As you can see from the quoted thread footage, v j stauffer lugged out severely against several other posters at the top of the lane only to come back in sharply in deep stretch, crowding even more posters near the wire.

For this, the stewards had no choice but to disqualify v j stauffer and place him LAST.


Gate Dancer, 1984 Breeder's Cup Classic.
I accept this ruling. Is there a chance that a suspension could be attached? I could use the rest.
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