COMPELLING new view of the FOUL

[Grits]

Originally Posted by depalma113

The horse switched leads more than once in the turn. It amazes me you are sticking to this nonsense when the video clearly shows what happened.

In fairness, during the telecast, immediately upon the objection going up. .... On wrong lead, switching leads, etc. This is one of the very first things Bailey brought up when asked, "Jerry, what do you think?"

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by horses4courses

I've watched you rant on about this now for 48 hours.
Haven't said a word because I thought it best to ignore.
The most tactful way I can put this is that I suspect you are insane.

The MS DQ cost me $600 - $5 Oaks/Derby DD.
Hardly a life changing score, but enough to piss me off.

I don't like arguing the merits of a DQ when I have money at stake.
Objectivity goes out the window. This time, not so much.

We've all been on the wrong end of DQ's. Doesn't make me insane.

[Cicada]

All three stewards agreed on the disqualification. If you don't enforce rules/regulations, no matter the importance of the event, why have them?

Mott said Sunday morning that it was he who encouraged Prat to claim foul after Jose Ortiz, the jockey on Mott’s other horse, third-place finisher Tacitus, told him that Maximum Security, “has to come down.”

Casse, whose horse did not benefit from the disqualification (except by moving up from eighth place to seventh, for no purse money), stood staunchly behind the disqualification. “The only reason it took so long to take him down is because it was the Kentucky Derby,” said Casse.

“By the rule book, it is the right call,” said Pletcher. “There is no question that he veered out and interfered with a couple horses. Very tough call.”

“No one ever calls an objection in the Derby,” Baffert told me Sunday afternoon, by text. “It’s always a roughly run race. Twenty-horse field. I have been wiped out numerous times, but that is the Derby. I can see by the book why they did it. But sometimes you’ve got to take your ass-kickings with dignity.”

[luisbe]

Mark Casse on the incident.

YouTube (Short URL)

[Niko]

Originally Posted by BlueChip@DRF

A second or two before sharply drifted, it looks like was trying to bully his way past when already had position and the hole closed up quickly because was gaining on .

I had never realized how aggressive of a move Tyler Gaffalione made on War of Will trying to force his way through. Not sure if it made a difference later with Maximum Security but it sure didn't help, not to mention all the other comments.

If both jockeys put other horses in danger why don't they both get days, instead of one DQ? With millions of dollars on the line, why can't we get a detailed explanation from the stewards walking us through their entire decision (not one point in the race).

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Niko

I had never realized how aggressive of a move Tyler Gaffalione made on War of Will trying to force his way through. Not sure if it made a difference later with Maximum Security but it sure didn't help, not to mention all the other comments.

If both jockeys put other horses in danger why don't they both get days, instead of one DQ? With millions of dollars on the line, why can't we get a detailed explanation from the stewards walking us through their entire decision (not one point in the race).

This really needs to stop. Maximum Security moved to the rail to shut War of Will off. Then he moved to the outside TWICE to shut him off. The second one was the foul.

To come to the conclusion that War of Will caused this, you have to take the position that he has no right at all to pass Maximum Security, and that Maximum Security has the right to weave back and forth to obstruct him even if War of Will is moving alongside Maximum Security.

It doesn't work that way. A little bit of "herding" is one thing. But this isn't a NASCAR race.

[horses4courses]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

We've all been on the wrong end of DQ's. Doesn't make me insane.

No, it does not.
Suggesting that the foul was deliberate?
A whole different story.

Check that deck for 52, will ya?

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by horses4courses

No, it does not.
Suggesting that the foul was deliberate?
A whole different story.

Check that deck for 52, will ya?

It was clearly deliberate, actually. I could prove it to a jury.

[horses4courses]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

It was clearly deliberate, actually. I could prove it to a jury.

We'll never know.
I contend you could not.

The idea that a racehorse going at full tilt could be controlled enough
by a 115 lb human to throw blocks and body checks around at will is absurd.

Any sane person who knows the sport knows that.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by horses4courses

We'll never know.
I contend you could not.

The idea that a racehorse going at full tilt could be controlled enough
by a 115 lb human to throw blocks and body checks around at will is absurd.

Any sane person who knows the sport knows that.

I have a ton of circumstantial evidence. The horse's movements were not random. He moved 4 times, each time where it was strategically justified.

[luisbe]

The hypocrisy of Flavien Prat does not do any good for the sport, here he is repeating that he lost momentum because of the foul:

YouTube (Short URL)

That's simply not true. Also, between Long Range Toddy and, mainly, Country House made Bodeexpress to pull sharply, that happened before the main incident.
"kind of cost me the win"? What are you talking about Flavien?

[rabrown36]

Everybody here is horseplayers, gamblers on horse racing and we all follow the game. So many people on this forum and others keep acting like the Kentucky Derby is the same as other races. It is not. It has never been and it is not treated the same. This is the biggest race of the year for all the owners, trainers, jockeys, to the casual fan, the media, etc.... This race is the reason why horses like Justify can win Horse of the Year over more accomplished older horses who actually win the biggest race of the year on dirt the Breeders Cup Classic. This race is not a regular race and has never been held to the same rules as one.

[098poi]

Not sure if this was posted. More discussion by NBC guys by phone I think. Randy Moss agrees with the decision but says Beyer told him he would have kept him up if he was a steward.

YouTube

Here it is! Probably will get it's own thread
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...=.93ecb8811281

[delsully]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

It was clearly deliberate, actually. I could prove it to a jury.

Law an Order: CDI

You really are too much

[BlueChip@DRF]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

It was clearly deliberate, actually. I could prove it to a jury.

Video shows that was deliberately trying to move into the space already occupied by AND creeping up the back of which caused legs to touch. had control of sight where he was going, but how does see when there is no rear-view mirror?