Thorograph Anual Freebie

[Tom]

Free T-Graph for the end of the year - 12/26-12/31

https://www.thorograph.com/

[Andy Asaro]

I'm not a sheets guy even though it would probably help my handicapping.

However

I'd noticed, especially since the new surfaces in California that most of the Jocks want to stay away from the kickback and want to go wide. That kinda messes up the sheets right or wrong? ThX

[bobphilo]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

I'm not a sheets guy even though it would probably help my handicapping.

However

I'd noticed, especially since the new surfaces in California that most of the Jocks want to stay away from the kickback and want to go wide. That kinda messes up the sheets right or wrong? ThX

If anything, it would make them more useful as more horses are affected by wide trips.

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by bobphilo

If anything, it would make them more useful as more horses are affected by wide trips.

You take a horse like Game Winner who was as awesome as it gets after a wide trip. Would he have done as well in a pocket? Not sure.

I foolishly took 17-1 on Improbable even though it looks good now I should have gotten 30-1. But I based my bet on his race B.C. day where he took dirt in his face. And he has a ton of room to improve IMO

[bobphilo]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

You take a horse like Game Winner who was as awesome as it gets after a wide trip. Would he have done as well in a pocket? Not sure.

What made Game Winner's win so awesome was that he did it despite losing ground to his rivals. Unless an inside trip gets him in traffic trouble, he would benefit from saving ground.

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by bobphilo

What made Game Winner's win so awesome was that he did it despite losing ground to his rivals. Unless an inside trip gets him in traffic trouble, he would benefit from saving ground.

You could be right but I want to see them take some kickback and overcome it. Years ago the dirt surfaces, especially in Ca. were harder with less kickback. A pocket trip on the dirt was a good thing. Watch the Jockeys and where they go.

[bobphilo]

Originally Posted by bobphilo

If anything, it would make them more useful as more horses are affected by wide trips.

That, by itself, doesn't automatically make the TG figures more accurate. For example, On comparing the TG and TFUS figures and analysis for the Queens County Stks, I found the TFUS figures more accurate. Since pace and ground loss are typically the main quantifiable factors affecting final figures, I personally like to begin with the pace adjusted TFUS figures and adjust them for ground loss.

[bobphilo]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

You could be right but I want to see them take some kickback and overcome it. Years ago the dirt surfaces, especially in Ca. were harder with less kickback. A pocket trip on the dirt was a good thing. Watch the Jockeys and where they go.

True, some horses are affected by kickback but I wouldn't assume it. I also wouldn't always put too much stock in what jocks do. Just as v.j. has pointed in an earlier thread, they are very quick to overreact to what they perceive as any kind of bias.

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by bobphilo

True, some horses are affected by kickback but I wouldn't assume it. I also wouldn't always put too much stock in what jocks do. Just as v.j. has pointed in an earlier thread, they are very quick to overreact to what they perceive as any kind of bias.

All I know and it maybe a millennial thing but if Eddie D. was on a closer he's lock him down and save ground into the first turn. I watch these guys going 5-8 wide into the first turn all the time. Obviously talking about route races.