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Old 06-28-2018, 10:44 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by elysiantraveller View Post
Nazis were heavily influenced by eugenics
As was Margaret Sanger. And while she crapped on Nazi Germany, she embraced the KKK...interesting chick...a hero of far-left liberals and the poster girl for abortion clinics everywhere. Some hero.

This is straight from Wikipedia, a favorite source for liberals around here:

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Eugenics
After World War I, Sanger increasingly appealed to the societal need to limit births by those least able to afford children. The affluent and educated already limited their child-bearing, while the poor and uneducated lacked access to contraception and information about birth control.[108] Here she found an area of overlap with eugenicists.[108] She believed that they both sought to "assist the race toward the elimination of the unfit." They differed in that "eugenists imply or insist that a woman's first duty is to the state; we contend that her duty to herself is her duty to the state."[109] Sanger was a proponent of negative eugenics, which aimed to improve human hereditary traits through social intervention by reducing the reproduction of those who were considered unfit.[6]

Sanger's view of eugenics was influenced by Havelock Ellis and other British eugenicists, who held that environmentally acquired traits were inherited by one's progeny.[110] Consequently, she rejected race and ethnicity as determining factors.[111][19]:195–6 Instead, she stressed limiting the number of births to live within one's economic ability to raise and support healthy children. This would lead to a betterment of society and the human race.[112] Sanger's view put her at odds with leading American eugenicists, such as Charles Davenport, who took a racist view of inherited traits. She continually rejected their approach.[113]

In "The Morality of Birth Control", a 1921 speech, she divided society into three groups: the "educated and informed" class that regulated the size of their families, the "intelligent and responsible" who desired to control their families in spite of lacking the means or the knowledge, and the "irresponsible and reckless people" whose religious scruples "prevent their exercising control over their numbers." Sanger concludes, "There is no doubt in the minds of all thinking people that the procreation of this group should be stopped."[114]

Sanger's eugenic policies included an exclusionary immigration policy, free access to birth control methods, and full family planning autonomy for the able-minded, as well as compulsory segregation or sterilization for the "profoundly retarded".[115][116] Sanger wrote, "we [do not] believe that the community could or should send to the lethal chamber the defective progeny resulting from irresponsible and unintelligent breeding."[117] In personal correspondence she expressed her sadness about the aggressive and lethal Nazi eugenics program; and donated to the American Council Against Nazi Propaganda.[116] In addition, Sanger believed the responsibility for birth control should remain with able-minded individual parents rather than the state, and that self-determining motherhood was the only unshakable foundation for racial betterment.[118][119]

Margaret Sanger justified her decision to speak to a Ku Klux Klan group by explaining, "to me any aroused group is a good group."[120]:366–367 She was closely associated with one of the most influential and extreme racist[121] authors in America in the 1920s and 1930s, the klansman and Nazi sympathizer Lothrop Stoddard.[122]:173 Chesler comments:

Margaret Sanger was never herself a racist, LULZ (this is me) but she lived in a profoundly bigoted society, and her failure to repudiate prejudice – especially when it was manifest among proponents of her cause – has hounded her ever since[19]:15
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Old 06-28-2018, 10:50 AM   #17
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As was Margaret Sanger. And while she crapped on Nazi Germany, she embraced the KKK...interesting chick...a hero of far-left liberals and the poster girl for abortion clinics everywhere. Some hero.

This is straight from Wikipedia, a favorite source for liberals around here:
Okay...?
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Old 06-28-2018, 10:51 AM   #18
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You say that you are in favor of abortion...but it shouldn't be as easy as ordering a big mac. Should it be like ordering a fillet mignon...something that only the "well-off" should afford? Have you a well thought-out solution to the abortion issue...or are you just adept at diagnosing the problem...while leaving the solution to someone else? I am very interested in knowing how you can straddle the fence on the abortion issue...by saying that you are for it, while claiming to respect the unborn life within the woman, at the same time.

Yes...Trump was a result of the public's discontent, and his political emergence should be blamed on the democratic party. And the exact same argument could be made about Obama. Wasn't Obama a product of the public's discontent...and would he have emerged as a major force without the gross incompetence of the
REPUBLICAN party?

IMO...whatever is said about the "far-left" can easily be modified and applied to the far-right just as accurately. That's what is currently wrong, not only in this country...but in the world at large. There are too many ignorant people walking along the opposite sides of the road...while the "middle way" is the way to go. We don't live in a "black-and-white" world.

I think you are overplaying that "Nazi/Holocaust-denier" card...by the way. Unless my memory fails me...certain prominent conservative posters here have also used the word "Nazi" in the past, while making some "comparisons" of their own. Where was your wild indignation then? Or should I go "fvck myself" too?
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Old 06-28-2018, 10:51 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by elysiantraveller View Post
Okay...?
You are confused about what exactly? Why I would post this after my initial rant which included a section on abortion?
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Old 06-28-2018, 10:56 AM   #20
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You are confused about what exactly? Why I would post this after my initial rant which included a section on abortion?
Oh... I stopped reading after the part I assumed was directed at me.

Your post about Margaret Sanger than just serves to show that most of this stuff is far more complex that just a simple black/white thing like Thaskalos has mentioned.

I'm all for tougher immigration laws. I'm cool with enforcing existing ones. I don't think it requires the separation of kids and parents and I think overall a wall is a pretty ****ing stupid idea since 50% plus are visa overstays.

Its possible to be gray.

The other issue that Trumpbots are really running into is they aren't fighting with just the far left anymore. They are fighting with Traditional Republicans... no not RINOS... they are fighting with Reagan Republicans.

Why is this...? Its because Trump is not a Republican.
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Old 06-28-2018, 10:59 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by thaskalos View Post
You say that you are in favor of abortion...but it shouldn't be as easy as ordering a big mac. Should it be like ordering a fillet mignon...something that only the "well-off" should afford? Have you a well thought-out solution to the abortion issue...or are you just adept at diagnosing the problem...while leaving the solution to someone else? I am very interested in knowing how you can straddle the fence on the abortion issue...by saying that you are for it, while claiming to respect the unborn life within the woman, at the same time.

Yes...Trump was a result of the public's discontent, and his political emergence should be blamed on the democraticparty. And the exact same argument could be made about Obama. Wasn't Obama a product of the public's discontent...and would he have emerge as a major force without the gross incompetence of the
REPUBLICAN party?

IMO...whatever is said about the "far-left" can easily be modified and applied to the far-right just as accurately. That's what is currently wrong, not only in this country...but in the world at large. There are too many ignorant people walking along the opposite sides of the road...while the "middle way" is the way to go. We don't live in a "black-and-white" world.

I think you are overplaying that "Nazi/Holocaust-denier" card...by the way. Unless my memory fails me...certain prominent conservative posters here have also used the word "Nazi", while making some "comparisons" of their own. Where was your wild indignation then? Or should I go "fvck myself" too?
I am not in favor of abortion. But I don't want to see it banned. That doesn't mean I am a cheerleader for the procedure.

When I write about abortion, I am writing about the ATTITUDE towards it held by its most enthusiastic proponents, as opposed to the procedure itself, which I believe should be left to the woman to decide.

I don't like the attitude toward abortion as it currently stands. It isn't looked at as a last resort, as it should be. It's looked at pretty much as another form of birth control, in my opinion. Certainly by its biggest defenders. And that to me is wrong. They have succeeded in converting a good portion of the population to view it this way as well. That has been their goal. It is why they won't give an inch, even when discussing some of the most extreme examples (partial birth for instance).

I'm sure Obama was in part a result of the discontent with Republicans, and certainly with the image painted of the Bush administration by the media and others. Of course, a nice big chunk of that image was Bush's own fault.

But I never trashed Obama as much as the biggest anti-Trumpers are trashing Trump every single minute here on this board, so I'm not sure why you're addressing that part of your reply to me.
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Old 06-28-2018, 11:13 AM   #22
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I am not in favor of abortion. But I don't want to see it banned. That doesn't mean I am a cheerleader for the procedure.
You start off the thread with an angry rant...as if your indignation is somehow justified, and well thought-out. But, after a little prodding...your argument becomes wishy-washy. Do you respect the "unborn life", and if so...what "adjustments" would you suggest to the current abortion laws? Is your issue with abortion just an "attitude" problem...or are you repulsed by the actual killing of the unborn fetus?
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Old 06-28-2018, 11:15 AM   #23
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But I never trashed Obama as much as the biggest anti-Trumpers are trashing Trump every single minute here on this board, so I'm not sure why you're addressing that part of your reply to me.
FYI: I did a search, and you've started threads with Obama in the thread title. Birther shit and all sorts of other suggestive stuff over the years. And I'm sure there's even more threads where you didn't use Obama in the title.

But I guess if you're comparing yourself to Ralph and a few others, yes, you're a piker
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Old 06-28-2018, 11:19 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by thaskalos View Post
You start off the thread with an angry rant...as if your indignation is somehow justified, and well thought-out. But, after a little prodding...your argument becomes wishy-washy. Do you respect the "unborn life", and if so...what "adjustments" would you suggest to the current abortion laws? Is your issue with abortion just an "attitude" problem...or are you repulsed by the actual killing of the unborn fetus?
I've expressed my views on abortion multiple times on this board.

I'm sorry it makes you uncomfortable. I'm sorry I don't fit your preconceived notions of what I should think about abortion. I'm sorry it also doesn't fit into the moral majority/Christian Church/Republican view of abortion either (which is, apparently, where you think I should stand on the issue).

But it should be pretty easy to understand.

I don't favor the banning of abortion.

I do favor a huge attitude adjustment towards it. Attitudes that have been warped by the far-left hammer that has been hitting our heads for decades now.
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Old 06-28-2018, 11:21 AM   #25
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I am not in favor of abortion
Who really ever is?
It should always be a last resort.

Yet, anyone who contributes on here that suggests women should have some
control over what happens to their bodies is greeted with familiar chants of
"child murderer", heard from the resident "anti-choice" group of self-appointed moral adjudicators.
They're wrong, and what they preach is a disservice to humanity.
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Old 06-28-2018, 11:23 AM   #26
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FYI: I did a search, and you've started threads with Obama in the thread title. Birther shit and all sorts of other suggestive stuff over the years. And I'm sure there's even more threads where you didn't use Obama in the title.

But I guess if you're comparing yourself to Ralph and a few others, yes, you're a piker
I already posted that number (54) a few days ago. Guess you missed that post. Beat you to the punch. Old news.

And yeah, his birth certificate was a pretty big issue at one point. I certainly didn't invent the news stories that were going around at that time. It was discussed everywhere.

Maybe I'll go run a search on John McCain's medical records and see where you stood on that, compared to where you stood on Hillary's. We can go back in time on a lot of stuff if you wish.
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Old 06-28-2018, 11:26 AM   #27
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I've expressed my views on abortion multiple times on this board.

I'm sorry it makes you uncomfortable. I'm sorry I don't fit your preconceived notions of what I should think about abortion. I'm sorry it also doesn't fit into the moral majority/Christian Church/Republican view of abortion either (which is, apparently, where you think I should stand on the issue).

But it should be pretty easy to understand.

I don't favor the banning of abortion.

I do favor a huge attitude adjustment towards it. Attitudes that have been warped by the far-left hammer that has been hitting our heads for decades now.
Sorry...I was misled by your "unborn life" reference in your initial post here. I thought it might be more than just an "attitude problem"...my bad.

When you find out a way to change prevailing attitudes...be sure to let us know.
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Old 06-28-2018, 11:26 AM   #28
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It should always be a last resort.
It's not treated that way by its most vicious defenders. In fact, it's been proven that at many if not most Planned Parenthood centers, other options are never even discussed. And PP is but one example.
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Old 06-28-2018, 11:28 AM   #29
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Sorry...I was misled by your "unborn life" reference in your initial post here. I thought it might be more than just an "attitude problem"...my bad.

When you find out a way to change prevailing attitudes...be sure to let us know.
The word unborn never appears in my initial post.
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Old 06-28-2018, 11:30 AM   #30
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It's not treated that way by its most vicious defenders. In fact, it's been proven that at many if not most Planned Parenthood centers, other options are never even discussed. And PP is but one example.
Providing abortions is a very small part of what PP does.
It's easily forgotten how many they prevent in the first place.
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