LeBron James

[lansdale]

Didn't see the game, but checked some replays after hearing about the wild finish. J.R.'s screw-up a tough break for Cavs, but in a a series this one-sided, I think its effect is negligible. Interesting question though, that if J.R. had known the score, was going right back up the right play? I don't think so. KD was looming over him -- likely he blocks J.R.'s shot, and even he fouls, Cavs probably don't ge the call. Bad is it may be, a TO seems like the better option in this situation - 4.7 seconds left.

Depressing to contemplate Lebron trying to beat this great team with a bunch of Rent-a-Team guys, but amazing that he's taken them this far.

[lansdale]

[quote=ronsmac;2323588]

Originally Posted by lansdale

Wow -- sounds like I insulted a lot of people -- including myself, since I have engaged in both of these activities. Since you didn't really respond to anything I posted -- to each his own.[/QUOTE] Thompson scored 37 in 1/4 and 60 in a game on a great team loves favorite shot is the 5 foot jump hook that he clanks off the back of the rim. for the most part he's been terrible in the playoffs .put him on a bad team and sure he'll get 20 points a game while they lose by 15 every game. I've been praying for him to be better for 4 years. I was tricked like most people were by just looking at his numbers in Minnesota.

I get why fans would like Thompson more and thinks he's a better player --his shooting motion is perfect, he's fast, and everything he does is fluid and athletic. He looks exactly like people think an NBA player should look. OTOH, because of his body-type, everything Love does, especially in the paint looks clunky, and he is slow. But those player efficiency #s measure the impact of everything a player does on the floor, not only scoring, which is mostly what fans care about, but boards, steals, turnovers, blocked shots etc., everything that has an impact on the outcome of a game. If you've never seen the movie 'Moneyball', it explains this all pretty well.

[lansdale]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

(IMHO) Love is a slightly better player than Klay.

Neither guy is some amazing warrior that hates losing and carries teams. If I wanted to talk-up a guy, I kinda want that character if he's not a super-talent, but these are both good pieces.

Two very different types of pieces (other than their roles occasionally overlapping as 3-point threats).

Love's edge mostly comes from his rebounding. He's not just getting default rebounds, but he actually understands and capitalizes on consistently good rebounding positioning. He plays the angles and then he's solid enough to control the rebound when it bounces where it's supposed to.

As 'pure' basketball players it's fairly one-sided in Love's favor. In terms of 'fit' it's debatable that Klay is a better fit for GSW.

Klay really fits in well with that Golden State offense. Draymond/Klay do a fine job of fitting their specific team roles as well or better than Love/JRSmith.

This is more or less my take. But as the league continues to move in the direction of smaller, up-tempo lineups, based on shooting threes, seems like an open question whether someone like Love will be able to adapt. There are a few guys of his type still in the game -- LMA, the aging P. Gasol, but they're also better defenders. Will be interesting to watch.

[burnsy]

Originally Posted by lansdale

Didn't see the game, but checked some replays after hearing about the wild finish. J.R.'s screw-up a tough break for Cavs, but in a a series this one-sided, I think its effect is negligible. Interesting question though, that if J.R. had known the score, was going right back up the right play? I don't think so. KD was looming over him -- likely he blocks J.R.'s shot, and even he fouls, Cavs probably don't ge the call. Bad is it may be, a TO seems like the better option in this situation - 4.7 seconds left.

Depressing to contemplate Lebron trying to beat this great team with a bunch of Rent-a-Team guys, but amazing that he's taken them this far.

What most people leave out is these are the chumps he wanted. LeBron played a great game, scored 51 and lost anyway. This one probably makes this a short series.


This is one of the reasons I don't like the LeBron "drama" . He's a great player that thinks he can be GM and a coach...….which he can not, to get a team like he's facing now. Golden State is even short a key defensive player.


For all the BS controversy there was an entire 5 minute OT after the game was tied. No excuses, at that point they got drubbed and GS almost still covered in 5 minutes. As LeBron goes 0-4 in OT.

[cj]

Originally Posted by burnsy

[/B]


What most people leave out is these are the chumps he wanted. LeBron played a great game, scored 51 and lost anyway. This one probably makes this a short series.


This is one of the reasons I don't like the LeBron "drama" . He's a great player that thinks he can be GM and a coach...….which he can not, to get a team like he's facing now. Golden State is even short a key defensive player.


For all the BS controversy there was an entire 5 minute OT after the game was tied. No excuses, at that point they got drubbed and GS almost still covered in 5 minutes. As LeBron goes 0-4 in OT.

This is not the team LeBron wanted. They traded away Irving, clearly the second best player on the team. The team LeBron wanted won a title and might have won another if not for injuries.

[burnsy]

Originally Posted by cj

This is not the team LeBron wanted. They traded away Irving, clearly the second best player on the team. The team LeBron wanted won a title and might have won another if not for injuries.

Irving wanted out, which speaks volumes. And they made a huge deal at the deadline. You really think he was not behind most of that? He also pretty much chose the coach too. This is his team. Traded away my ass, the guy demanded a trade off a great year....lol....why?

[cj]

Originally Posted by burnsy

Irving wanted out, which speaks volumes. And they made a huge deal at the deadline. You really think he was not behind most of that? He also pretty much chose the coach too. This is his team. Traded away my ass, the guy demanded a trade off a great year....lol....why?

I'm saying LeBron did not want Kyrie to go. The team now, sure it is the one he wanted compared to the one they had before the trades. That team would have never made it this far.

I don't know why Kyrie wanted to be traded. I guess he wanted to be the man on a team which was never going to happen with LeBron. He isn't good enough. He also wasn't the man this year because he couldn't stay on the floor. He isn't a very sturdy basketball player. If you are knocking LeBron for Irving wanting to leave, I think that is a bit misguided.

What I will say is LeBron is the one that started all this player run super team stuff, so he has reaped what he has sown. He got one upped by Kevin Durant. I'm not saying he was wrong or anything, but he is either going to have to settle for three titles and a lot of Finals losses or he is going to have to leave Cleveland to find another super team that can beat GSW. Philly perhaps?

[ronsmac]

Originally Posted by cj

I'm saying LeBron did not want Kyrie to go. The team now, sure it is the one he wanted compared to the one they had before the trades. That team would have never made it this far.

I don't know why Kyrie wanted to be traded. I guess he wanted to be the man on a team which was never going to happen with LeBron. He isn't good enough. He also wasn't the man this year because he couldn't stay on the floor. He isn't a very sturdy basketball player. If you are knocking LeBron for Irving wanting to leave, I think that is a bit misguided.

What I will say is LeBron is the one that started all this player run super team stuff, so he has reaped what he has sown. He got one upped by Kevin Durant. I'm not saying he was wrong or anything, but he is either going to have to settle for three titles and a lot of Finals losses or he is going to have to leave Cleveland to find another super team that can beat GSW. Philly perhaps?

I thought the Celtics started the so called super teams. Although one could say it was started by the 1976-1977 sixers.

[cj]

Originally Posted by ronsmac

I thought the Celtics started the so called super teams. Although one could say it was started by the 1976-1977 sixers.

Sure, there have been super teams before, but that is why I said player run. I mean players talking together in the off season and basically plotting playing together, acting almost like GMs.

[lansdale]

Originally Posted by cj

I'm saying LeBron did not want Kyrie to go. The team now, sure it is the one he wanted compared to the one they had before the trades. That team would have never made it this far.

I don't know why Kyrie wanted to be traded. I guess he wanted to be the man on a team which was never going to happen with LeBron. He isn't good enough. He also wasn't the man this year because he couldn't stay on the floor. He isn't a very sturdy basketball player. If you are knocking LeBron for Irving wanting to leave, I think that is a bit misguided.

What I will say is LeBron is the one that started all this player run super team stuff, so he has reaped what he has sown. He got one upped by Kevin Durant. I'm not saying he was wrong or anything, but he is either going to have to settle for three titles and a lot of Finals losses or he is going to have to leave Cleveland to find another super team that can beat GSW. Philly perhaps?

You're right, LBJ very much wanted Kyrie to stay, and although he clearly stated that he didn't want to play with Lebron any longer, but pragmatically, also had to realize that this Cavs group was never going to beat GSW post-Durant. OTOH, Kyrie had no control over his trade destination, and Boston was not one of his preferred teams, but the place that the Cavs were able to get most value -- at least they thought so at the time.

Re the 'LBJ-created' teams, he's actually been very successful with this, having appeared in the last nine Finals and won three titles. He's actually done better than any post-career player-GM I can think of, except for Jerry West.
But he's also demonstrated the limits of this approach. As you said, he'll end up with more Finals losses than wins, which I think is inevitable when you're trying to put together a team on the fly, and grabbing whoever is available, as he has had to do, rather than drafting/developing your team like GSW, Bulls, Spurs, etc. This is why fan complaints about Lebron somehow manufacturing better teammates out of thin air to beat GSW are so ridiculous -- the best players, those he would need to beat GSW, are rarely ever available.

[ronsmac]

It's painful watching Love play basketball. On both ends.

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by ronsmac

It's painful watching Love play basketball. On both ends.

I always thought JR Smith was the weak link on that team of those that got a lot of minutes. I wasn't shocked at what he did at the end of game 1, he makes more than his fair share of bonehead plays.

[ronsmac]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

I always thought JR Smith was the weak link on that team of those that got a lot of minutes. I wasn't shocked at what he did at the end of game 1, he makes more than his fair share of bonehead plays.

Jr has been pretty much useless the entire season but expectations are so low that it doesn't surprise anyone. love is an undeserved max player who's 6 ft 10 in tall yet a 40% career playoff shooter and for the most part a liability defensively. The strongest part of his game has been his deadly free throw shooting.

[cj]

Originally Posted by ronsmac

Jr has been pretty much useless the entire season but expectations are so low that it doesn't surprise anyone. love is an undeserved max player who's 6 ft 10 in tall yet a 40% career playoff shooter and for the most part a liability defensively. The strongest part of his game has been his deadly free throw shooting.

Even the announcers were all over Love last game. He is a victim of the times. His game just doesn't translate to today's style of basketball. He appeared to have phoned it in during G2.

[Valuist]

Originally Posted by cj

This is not the team LeBron wanted. They traded away Irving, clearly the second best player on the team. The team LeBron wanted won a title and might have won another if not for injuries.

LeBron IS the defacto GM of the team.

The team that won a title benefitted from a confluence of circumstances in which everything fell into place. And they still barely got it done. Last year was what should've happened two years ago.