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Old 03-18-2019, 08:23 PM   #136
Dahossdaboss
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Originally Posted by chadk66 View Post
I have to question the size of the fields in those two big races. Hard to justify running a horse of that caliber there right now
No comment on Foregoforever’s post?
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Old 03-18-2019, 09:12 PM   #137
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Santa Anita

uncertain if this thought has been posted, just came home(9pm)

In the history of racing have 22 horses died in the manner
that has occurred at Santa Anita, and within a similar time frame?

If the answer is (hopefully) no, and none have died due to being
treated with Lasix, isn't it clear the actual track condition, rather than Lasix is the cause of these deaths?.

I don't recall this type of event occurring at any track in the United States
which was ultimately attributed to Lasix.

In turn, I am aware Ms Stronach made certain changes to the track maintenance team, which might be a significant cause of this tragedy.

It would appear the right move is to have professional track maintenance
managers from the major national and even international tracks diagnose
any potential issues with the track.

final thought; how many of these horses actually died during a race?
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Old 03-19-2019, 06:54 AM   #138
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3 Things

Three things that were Unprecedented at this Santa Anita season.

1. Heavy Rain, - again and again.

2. Track was "Sealed", again and again.

3. Horses injured, again and again.

Connect the dots.
Nothing to do with Lasix or whips !
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Old 03-19-2019, 07:15 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by Hosshead View Post
Three things that were Unprecedented at this Santa Anita season.

1. Heavy Rain, - again and again.

2. Track was "Sealed", again and again.

3. Horses injured, again and again.

Connect the dots.
Nothing to do with Lasix or whips !

The thing is, Del Mar and Santa Anita had a lot of fatal breakdowns years ago, which is why the state mandated the change to synthetic tracks (which reduced the number of fatal breakdowns). So, I'm not saying that you're wrong, but this isn't something that developed just this winter. Santa Anita and Del Mar have had this problem, just as bad, in the past. Which is why I think that you can make a case that drugs do factor into it. Del Mar was a killing grounds in two different meets.
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Old 03-19-2019, 07:57 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by Dahossdaboss View Post
No comment on Foregoforever’s post?
im not sure what you want me to say about it. Most of that I have no knowledge of. Anybody know the frequency of horses racing this meet vs when the old racing sec was there?
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Old 03-19-2019, 07:59 AM   #141
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I won’t rule out drugs but I will say it’s not likely. And I can assure you lasix has nothing to do with it.
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Old 03-19-2019, 09:10 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by chadk66 View Post
im not sure what you want me to say about it. Most of that I have no knowledge of. Anybody know the frequency of horses racing this meet vs when the old racing sec was there?
I know you have no knowledge of it. I had been trying to tell you that for days.
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Old 03-19-2019, 10:16 AM   #143
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The thing is, Del Mar and Santa Anita had a lot of fatal breakdowns years ago, which is why the state mandated the change to synthetic tracks (which reduced the number of fatal breakdowns). So, I'm not saying that you're wrong, but this isn't something that developed just this winter. Santa Anita and Del Mar have had this problem, just as bad, in the past. Which is why I think that you can make a case that drugs do factor into it. Del Mar was a killing grounds in two different meets.
Arlington and Keenland did the same because of the spike in breakdowns.
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Old 03-19-2019, 10:17 AM   #144
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I know you have no knowledge of it.
Well, let's be honest. We're all dumb as hell. After several weeks of intense study and the national spotlight, we don't know a damned thing more than when we started. None of the track studies found anything wrong. If there have been any necropsy findings of note, I haven't seen them. We've had our attention diverted to lasix and drugs, which are worthwhile issues, just not pertinent to the SA problem. Information is being tightly controlled, and our best source, Balan, is off the case.

The only thing we've learned is that SoCal racing is ... let's be polite ... dysfunctional. And we knew that long ago.

There's a lot of smoke, but no one has found the fire. None of us should be feeling very intelligent at this point.
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Old 03-19-2019, 10:21 AM   #145
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Ms Stronach could be setting the plate to sell Santa Anita property afterDad passes away.
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Old 03-19-2019, 10:27 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by foregoforever View Post
Well, let's be honest. We're all dumb as hell. After several weeks of intense study and the national spotlight, we don't know a damned thing more than when we started. None of the track studies found anything wrong. If there have been any necropsy findings of note, I haven't seen them. We've had our attention diverted to lasix and drugs, which are worthwhile issues, just not pertinent to the SA problem. Information is being tightly controlled, and our best source, Balan, is off the case.

The only thing we've learned is that SoCal racing is ... let's be polite ... dysfunctional. And we knew that long ago.

There's a lot of smoke, but no one has found the fire. None of us should be feeling very intelligent at this point.
I’m all for being honest. Posting a dozen or so times when you’re totally unfamiliar with the situation is silly IMO. That’s my point in regards to Chad.

I think at the end of the day IMO it’s a combination of bad luck (mostly) and unsound horses running over a harder than normal surface. The whole thing was magnified because TSG (and SoCal racing) is as you said dysfunctional and did not attempt to control the narrative until it was too late.

The unfortunate thing is horses are still going to break down when racing resumes because that’s a harsh reality of racing. Since TSG allowed this situation to get where it did, there will be no answer when there are more breakdowns.
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Old 03-19-2019, 11:04 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by foregoforever View Post
Well, let's be honest. We're all dumb as hell. After several weeks of intense study and the national spotlight, we don't know a damned thing more than when we started. None of the track studies found anything wrong. If there have been any necropsy findings of note, I haven't seen them. We've had our attention diverted to lasix and drugs, which are worthwhile issues, just not pertinent to the SA problem. Information is being tightly controlled, and our best source, Balan, is off the case.

The only thing we've learned is that SoCal racing is ... let's be polite ... dysfunctional. And we knew that long ago.

There's a lot of smoke, but no one has found the fire. None of us should be feeling very intelligent at this point.

Yes, SoCal has problems. This is a crisis, in my opinion, and they should not only be taking the steps they're taking but conducting research on other things, such as the breeding, the muscularity and bone density of the horses racing now as opposed to years ago, the way we race the horses now, with longer layoffs...is it really working? Are the horses lacking foundation?

In terms of the physicality of the horses, maybe I'm nuts but when I first started going to Aqueduct and the other NYRA tracks back around 1971, I could swear that there were a lot more horses with strong looking legs, and that now a lot of the horses have skinny legs.
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Old 03-19-2019, 11:40 AM   #148
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Arlington and Keenland did the same because of the spike in breakdowns.
Are we sure that's accurate? Keeneland's meet is so short that a "spike" would be quite noticeable, and I don't remember anything like that. Turfway, with whom they were associated at the time, did it because of the weather; I think Keeneland did it for the p.r. of getting out ahead of the situation.

I forget Arlington's situation; it may have had a bad stretch before it made a change.
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Old 03-19-2019, 12:06 PM   #149
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Are we sure that's accurate? Keeneland's meet is so short that a "spike" would be quite noticeable, and I don't remember anything like that. Turfway, with whom they were associated at the time, did it because of the weather; I think Keeneland did it for the p.r. of getting out ahead of the situation.

I forget Arlington's situation; it may have had a bad stretch before it made a change.
I can't recall if Keeneland had breakdowns, but the original dirt track was probably the most inside speed biased track in the country, to the point of absurdity. It played like a half mile harness track. I think that probably had something to do with the changeover.
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Old 03-19-2019, 02:21 PM   #150
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Speaking strictly for myself, I'm not sold on the new whip rules.

I suggest anybody who thinks I'm nuts for not supporting the new whip rules watch both the pan shot and head on replay of R2 at Mahoning Valley Race Course from earlier today (Tues 03-19-2019.)

Specifically, focus on the actions of winning rider Jordano Tunon who was (Imo) aboard a need a need the lead type horse at 25-1.

In my opinion:
  • Tunon was able to win the race because of his strong use of the whip. He went to the whip left handed in the upper stretch, gave the horse a couple of really solid left handed reminders in mid-stretch, and then got the horse (who Imo was tiring) to finish the job by switching to the right hand nearing the wire.

  • The 25-1 winner doesn't hold off the favorite and win that race if both riders aren't allowed to use the whip to ask their horses for speed.

  • Tunon's ride in that race illustrates perfectly the level of effort I want from a rider when I bet on a longshot.

  • Post time favorites are already winning thoroughbred races at a near 38% clip. If adopted, the new whip rules have potential to turn thoroughbred racing into even more of a chalk-fest than what we have now.


-jp

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Last edited by Jeff P; 03-19-2019 at 02:28 PM.
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