Landmark decision FOR us 'cappers!!! - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

fmhealth · 08-12-2020, 08:21 PM

I've never seen nor actually imagined a verdict of this magnitude in favor of 'cappers. Could very possibly be a harbinger of numerous cases to follow.

Be Well,
fmhealth

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...id=mailsignout

foregoforever · 08-12-2020, 08:38 PM

It was a settlement, not a decision. And since the lawsuit was funded by PETA, I hardly think that it was intended to help horseplayers.

clicknow · 08-13-2020, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foregoforever

It was a settlement, not a decision. And since the lawsuit was funded by PETA, I hardly think that it was intended to help horseplayers.

I was just coming on to say the same thing.

when art collector was DQed from his early race back in November for a drug positive, and a million other situaitons like this, it does seem that bettors should have some recourse.

However, wouldn't it just be better to work on getting drugs out of our sport to begin with, and get rid of the usual suspects as well?

Bettors trying to make money off a (dysfunctional) sport seems wrong to me.

Because 1) It doesn't help honest horsemen who work hard but are losing to the druggers, and 2) it sure doesn't help the horses, either.

Trying to solve the problem, once and for all, w/out PETA who has an agenda, would be my vote.

jay68802 · 08-13-2020, 12:54 AM

Yep, just a settlement.

But it it really telling. One side was afraid of this getting to court. They did not want this to go to court. This gives this lawsuit credibility. Just a little more proof of how dangerous the drugs to this sport. A baby step for sure, but in the right direction.

foregoforever · 08-13-2020, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay68802

Yep, just a settlement.

But it it really telling. One side was afraid of this getting to court. They did not want this to go to court. This gives this lawsuit credibility.

$27,500 is cheap compared to the legal fees that the trainer would have incurred had this gone to trial. I wouldn't read anything into this case other than that.

Redboard · 08-14-2020, 03:13 PM

I agree with the title of this thread. I was always under the impression that there's no legal foundation for "lost winnings."

AndyC · 08-14-2020, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clicknow

.......Trying to solve the problem, once and for all, w/out PETA who has an agenda, would be my vote.

As long as gambling is involved people will always try to find ways to cheat. I think society will attain world peace before the elimination of horse doping. But of course that doesn't mean it shouldn't be a goal for racing.

green80 · 08-16-2020, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foregoforever

$27,500 is cheap compared to the legal fees that the trainer would have incurred had this gone to trial. I wouldn't read anything into this case other than that.

I agree 100%

clicknow · 08-19-2020, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyC

As long as gambling is involved people will always try to find ways to cheat. I think society will attain world peace before the elimination of horse doping. But of course that doesn't mean it shouldn't be a goal for racing.

I'ts not like "world peace". Bettors are actually walking away from US racing because of the drugging.

So it's not idealistic so much as actually realistic and practical to get the drugs out.

Horse Racing Integrity Act has been sitting around for what seems like a decade now.

AndyC · 08-19-2020, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clicknow

I'ts not like "world peace". Bettors are actually walking away from US racing because of the drugging.

So it's not idealistic so much as actually realistic and practical to get the drugs out.

Horse Racing Integrity Act has been sitting around for what seems like a decade now.

Doping horses was going on when I first started betting horses in the early 70s. At some point in my handicapping I realized that it was more prudent for me to handicap the cheating than to just complain about it. Cheaters have patterns. In a perfect world there would be no doping but I don't know that I will live that long.

Practically speaking there is not a consensus as to which drugs should be banned and which drugs should be allowed and if allowed the dosages and the time periods.

thaskalos · 08-19-2020, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyC

Doping horses was going on when I first started betting horses in the early 70s. At some point in my handicapping I realized that it was more prudent for me to handicap the cheating than to just complain about it. Cheaters have patterns. In a perfect world there would be no doping but I don't know that I will live that long.

Practically speaking there is not a consensus as to which drugs should be banned and which drugs should be allowed and if allowed the dosages and the time periods.

At some point in my handicapping career, I realized that it's more prudent for me to handicap the cheating...AND to complain about it.

AndyC · 08-19-2020, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaskalos

At some point in my handicapping career, I realized that it's more prudent for me to handicap the cheating...AND to complain about it.

I guess complaining about it would offer some people cover for their lost bets. Voicing concern and offering solutions is certainly reasonable. Adapting or not participating are really the only options for most players.

clicknow · 08-20-2020, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyC

At some point in my handicapping I realized that it was more prudent for me to handicap the cheating than to just complain about it. Cheaters have patterns.

Well I commend you if you can handicap drugs. I can't.

As for "complaining" about drugging horses.....I feel no shame in that. They aren't pin-cushions and shouldn't be used as such.

Racing isn't improving it's reputation in this way and thus will hamper new blood into the game (on top of everything else

)

I have never once regretted speaking out on behalf of a horse.

AndyC · 08-20-2020, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clicknow

Well I commend you if you can handicap drugs. I can't.

As for "complaining" about drugging horses.....I feel no shame in that. They aren't pin-cushions and shouldn't be used as such.

Racing isn't improving it's reputation in this way and thus will hamper new blood into the game (on top of everything else

)

I have never once regretted speaking out on behalf of a horse.

If you find complaining productive, go for it.

Any new blood coming into this game is via a transfusion to a senior citizen.

classhandicapper · 08-20-2020, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyC

Doping horses was going on when I first started betting horses in the early 70s. At some point in my handicapping I realized that it was more prudent for me to handicap the cheating than to just complain about it. Cheaters have patterns. In a perfect world there would be no doping but I don't know that I will live that long.

As a gambler that was the attitude I had about it for a long time because there was nothing I could do about it and I probably did better playing trainer changes and patterns than almost anything else I tried until DRF added some of that information to the PPs and then added the trainer tool to Formulator.

When I expressed that view one time on another forum they raked me over the coals. There were a number of owners that posted there that made the opposite case.

Now that I have a very small stake in a couple of horses I'm more sympathetic to their position. As an owner (or trainer I presume), nothing pisses you off more than finishing 2nd to a horse from a suspected "move up" barn.